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I think that the Government should stay out of everyone’s lives and let parents raise their children without being told how to do so. That’s one main things that’s wrong with children now days, parents can’t even discipline them when they need it for fear that their children will be snatched from them by the state. No one parents the same way so therefore the Government shouldn’t try to force their ways of parenting onto other parents just because they may not like the way they are raising their children. I know I raise my son different in some ways than many I know do, but he is still provided for in every way that he needs and is very well taken care of and by no means is he abused. Now yes, if someone is beating a child, or abusing them in any other form, and I mean real abuse, not what some State people like to call abuse, then yes by all means that child should be taken from the situation and provided with better care. It just disgusts me to know some of the things they call abuse now days.. if you get onto your child in public people look at you like you’ve just tried to kill the child, far be it for you to spank your child anymore because if you do you run the risk of losing your child. It is ridiculous. Why can’t parents just be left to raise their children in peace. God entrusted us with his children, I think we should be left to do the job we were given by him.

Amen, preach on. I, too am so sick of government trying to tell us parents who were raised with wisdom from our own parents what to do. As if the state’s care of children is any better than their own blood parents, HAH! My eye! More kids are raped, beaten, burned with cigarettes, left outside the home to fend for themselves when the state paid carers don’t want to bother with them anymore. No excuses for parents who do these things, though but it must be proven with the actual criminal system for prosecuting these crimes. Foster carers only get excused with nothing more than a slap on the hand and told ” you can’t do that”. Parents are jailed for that stuff, which is as it should be, but treat state paid carers the same. Enough of the assault on parental rights!! And people dare have the gall to turn in a parent for administering a good spanking as long as they explain what it is that the child did wrong, and why it is wrong. I see nothing wrong with it. But people are just too dang nosy and don’t know the full context of what goes on in that parent’s home. If a child runs out in the parking lot and dang near gets hit by a car and a parent spanks their child with a couple of whacks for scaring them half to death, ok with me as I understand the fear, what else is the parent to do when a child won’t obey because the schools tell them that they don’t have to obey any authority and then people wonder why kids are much more out of control than ever??? Just a point to ponder.

Amen!!!!! I agree with anna above. This is exactly what is wrong with our children today is that they get away with anything, no morals and not being put responible for their actions. Let parents be parents (as long as no physical abuse is going on, I was spanked as a kid (not beaten) I totally respect my parents.

Well, Anna, there you go…the State believes it is the giver and taker of rights.

I agree with you, based on God’s revealed Word—we are given by God the **obligation** to raise a godly seed. But we’re at a point in time where one must prove or disprove that there even is a God. If the Bible is just a book full of contradictions, written by men, then other men who worship themselves and their intellect can easily step in and tell us what to do with our families. And if we don’t perform to their standards—after all, they are the **experts**, and we’re not—they can take our children away and indoctrinate them to their liking. Has this not already happened in the Eastern Bloc countries? Who wants to live like that? I don’t!

None of this has anything to do with children have freedom to explore; it’s all a fight to decide who gets to indoctrinate the children.

Does anyone out there notice that the world used to be a better place? wonder why?

It does NOT take a village to raise a child. The Government need’s to butt out! Too many of our children and grandchildren are being stolen by the Government as it is, for purely idiotic reason’s, including false report’s of abuse and neglect. Even when their proven false,the children are NOT returned. The world used to be a better place, before Child Protective Services was put into place.

This kind of stuff makes me want to raise my kid alone in a jungle somewhere. I am against most of how government wants us to raise our children and what government wants us to TEACH our children–so watch, I may end up in jail sometime. Lovely.

When I think about most government employees, including and especially high-level politicians, I do not see evidence that they raise exemplary children. They, as we all, try and do our best, but they are in no position to say their children are a better help to society, or are any more content with their lives, than the children of parents who have a different childrearing approach. Children are better raised by people who don’t think so highly of themselves that they believe their parenting style is the only way.

Anybody out there read “The Giver” by Lois Lowry?? …this road leads there.

As the mother of two toddlers, it is scary to consider that the government could come and snatch them from me at any time.

All I know is that when I spank my children, it is to innoculate them from danger.

A pediatrician is not incarcerated when he gives a child a shot that makes him scream, because it is an accepted practice to hopefully shield them from greater harm.

Therefore, why should we be treated as criminals for doing the same thing? If I didn’t spank my children, they wouldn’t fear disobeying me and would continue to run into the street and could ultimately lose their life.

Why can’t the government see that the Bible is true when it says, “he that spareth his rod, hateth his son but he that loveth him, chasteneth him”?

Having sat through several state-sposnsored child-education classes, it is amazing to see how cocky and smug our society is regarding it’s child-rearing practices, and yet the evidence overwhelmingly screams for more discipline.

gotta tell you, the government decides how to educate your child already; aren’t they doing a commmendable job? God forbid your child is labled LD and you as the parent disagrees with the “smoke show” of intentional bs that the school dictates is an educational plan for your child’s specific needs, try going against them. They are bullies, no more moral than your common thief and our governemnt is nice enough to pay them with our tax $! Same is true as staed before; they get a slap on the wrist if decided against and the parents are continually threatened with losing their child. (which they eventually will anyhow as where can they go without an education?)The problem is the governement has been in there all along so now all the fk’d up individuals are now enforcing the rules???!!! if it weren’t true; it’d make a great movie! I had a child with a speech problem and will never forget the useless time spent with an agency put in place by the governemnt to help us as a family where my insurance paid them 80% and so many other parents there were foster parents or single parents of severely needy children. (Getting paid by the state to care or supplement their own childrens’ care) I swear to you, the stuff that was written into my child’s report (I had to request it & that was after I decided their services were useless and actually quite a negative experience often undermining me as a parent.) it is my opinion that the student social worker who was really out there, very stoic, quiet and obviously unbalanced reported everything I said backwards!!! My child was and is absolutely beautiful, big blue eyes, blond hair, terrific disposition and smile.. such an easy going child. My gut told me this student social worker must have been furstrated in her life; she was married without children. I am convinced she was looking to create a web of falsities to be able to parent my child!!! I kid you not! I was fearful when my children were at school that they’d be taken away and I never did anything but love my children too much if possible and look for ways to help them!!! Here she was a student!!! and they tried to question me as to whether there was abuse at our house… there was a language disability, my child did not say he/she scared of his dad,( name begins with S) it was school, that was the word…. at age 2.5!!! and with a speech impediment! They are sick human beings!!! Glad to say child is now 20!!! Scarred from educational lunacy but otherwise still has an intact family, a great smile and a normal disposition for a young adult not having things dropped in his lap like the celebrities on tv! At age 16, our local, wealthy suburban public school system threatened me with truancy and removing the child from our home once again… and it was them who had no placement for him; we had not agreed upon anything it was their way or the highway. Lawyers said if they followed through it would cost $100,000,00!!! and a long time. My child would’ve killed himself; was really dependent upon routine and the love of family. and do not even mention if someone hurt my child in any way… the terrorists’ attack would’ve seemed mild! a mother’s love is fierce! I think the government is no match! Yes, as nutty as I sound, I am a christian but being one I know we make mistakes too and we’re only human and since God loves us all and forgives us, I’d let whatever happens happen naturally. It is hell here on earth and the good things don’t happen here. I had my entire child’s well being to worry about and help develop and the school has one agenda and the child’s best interest aren’t even considered; don’t kid yourself! I completely beleive that God has entrusted these children to us and he’ll guide us. I have no problem and am an advocate of parenting classes (www.askjantedeschi.com) and books; parenting with dignitity by Mac Bledsoe and finding ways to motivate your children into a success cycle rather than a failure cycle and with the right kind of education that is a possiblity not the governemnt!

The government has no business taking over the parents’ rights… but maybe poor parenting has led to this mess! For example: Why do people use the word “discipline” to mean corporal punishment… such as spanking? “Discipline” may or may not include spanking. We are very strict parents who do NOT use spanking, but we do use reward and punishment… and our child has turned out quite well. Quite frankly, I do not believe spanking is abusive, BUT I also do not think spanking is effective in the the long-term. I ought to know: My parents did use spanking, and so did my grandmother for her own children. My grandfather, on the other hand, NEVER spanked, nor did he ever raise his voice in order to get kids to behave. He was kind, and yet very firm… in a word: Respectful. Of others. And he commanded respect in return. Can you imagine Jesus spanking the little children?

Ann, If you don’t think Jesus would have spanked His own children, then you have a warped view of the God Who created this world. Jesus was not the mushy idividual that is portrayed by the media, paintings, etc… The Bible speaks of Him coming with a sword, and He tells the church in Revelations “as many as I love, I rebuke and chasten” (Rev 3:19)

So please don’t feed us any more of this mushy stuff! It is sentimental feminisation that has gotten us into this mess in the first place!!!

You’re absolutely right: Jesus was meek… NOT mushy! Meek, not as the world portrays it, but meek as in strong enough to control himself when tempted to simply react inappropriately. Maybe I gave the wrong impression. My grandfather was not mushy, either. All he had to do was firmly, but gently, say, “No”, and none of us dared to cross him!! There is nothing in the bible which states that Jesus spanked the children, but I’ll bet they didn’t dare misbehave around Him anymore than kids misbehaved around my grandfather.

Do you enjoy your trips to the Department of Motor Vehicles? Have you ever had an error on your tax return or Social Security? That’s the quality service of the ’state’ who will now assume the responsibility of child rearing. After all, their current methods of rearing children in foster care is working out so well!

I can’t believe how Libertarian I’m feeling these days. I used to want the government to fix the ills of the world when I was 20. At 30 I just wanted them to fix the roads and use my taxes wisely. At 40 I just wish they’d leave me alone all together. Walden’s Pond, here I come.

I think it is easy to get off track here. The issue is NOT whether to spank or not. It is whether parents have the right to make that call. (Personally, I think how effective various forms of discipline are depends somewhat on the child’s temperment, some react very strongly to parental disaproval, while others can be more strong willed and require a firmer hand. Most will respond to bribery, but is that most effective?) The main point is, that the parent is the one who knows that child and what works best for that child, and the parent has the right to make the call.

The same with education. Homeschooling is a wonderful option. Some parents may not feel that it is best for their child, others feel it is the ONLY solution for theirs. Regardless of how I feel about the educational choice my neighbor makes, it is THEIR call, not mine, and NOT THE GOVERNMENT’S.

Parents better stand up and protest this loudly, because if they don’t, we soon will have no option.

I remember an early 1970’s movie called “Logan’s Run”. In that movie the children were taken from every parent at birth and raised by the state. Parents everywhere accepted this as the norm, concluding that “only experts could ever properly raise a child”. When I saw that it seemed laughable, it is beginning to look not so far fetched.

I see that many commenters have had personal run-ins with the Government and feel bitter about it. I’ll tell you, my experience with finding legal help for the disadvantaged led me to the same conclusion. Once you get police, judges or social services involved in your life, it is a hard road to get them out, and it rarely ends well. And that is because they take away your right to do things ‘your way’. I wanted to believe that welfare and social services helped and protected people, and perhaps it does. But my personal experience has exposed that many times it doesn’t help, or doesn’t help those who really need it, while harshly impacting those who didn’t need it. I wish the government would stop pandering to those who want to help the ‘widows and orphans’ and be honest about the impact of the services they provide. I don’t advocate ending these services, but the government has virtually put the church out of the social service business, and I wonder if ‘faith-based organizations’ might not do a better job?

Jen, I think you are correct. In many cases, if a church *does* try to help someone in need, the person receiving the help either has to lie about it or have the same amount deducted from their state check. Churches *can* be creative, for example, in my state if a church delivers $300 worth of groceries to someone on welfare, the person does not have to report that to DSHS, however if the church writes a check for $300, it does have to be reported and the entire amount is taken out of the person’s next government check. Similarly, the church can write a check to a person’s landlord for that person’s rent, and it does not have to be reported. But if the money is given to the tenant first to pay their own rent, then it does have to be reported.

It would be easier if the church could give knowing that their help would actually help, and not hurt.

Churches have been restricted from feeding the hungry unless they can meet all of the same regulations a restaurant does.

Churches can’t provide education in some states unless they can hire a certified teacher.

Some have tried to say that pastor’s can’t provide counseling unless the pastor is also a licensed psychologist. I don’t know if that passed or not.

I think its high time the government gets its nose out of things, and lets the rest of society do their jobs.

From my personal experience with Department of Health and Human Services I feel that our children are not protected in any way.

Both state and federal financial incentives are given to social workers, their bosses, the judges, and the “so-called” professionals who are involved in a C.P.S. case.

It it outright despicable and atrocious that we live in a country called America “Land of the Free” and yet our rights are purely violated by the government.

Children suffer much pain and grief when losing their parent and it is barbaric to do this to a child.

It is barbaric to put parents through so much pain and grief, when the parent and/or parents have done nothing wrong.

The law “Innocent til proven Guilty” and that is still the law.

We as people of this country must never give up in our fight to win our children back.

Jeremiah 31:16
“Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.”

God Bless.

I agree with most of what you all are saying. I wish there was a way to get the
government out of our families. But there is one thing I know for sure is that prayer changes things. I am one of those foster parents and I have to tell you that is the best way to get the government into your business. I also have my own children under 12yrs living in my home. I foster because of the problem with the state. These children need a safe place to go and someone to care for them until they can go home. I often wonder why the state takes these children can’t they just as easily foster the whole family so these children can stay with there families. I am afraid for my children when they go to school. Now I homeschool and I’m still afraid because I know the state has more rights than I do even if they pretend it’s not true. That is what keeps me on my knees………

We need a president with a backbone who will defund the UN! I think the USA gives the UN about $6 billion annually. Wouldn’t it be a shame if the UN folded because of insufficient funds…

AMEN to that, Scott!!!

I second that idea scott! Wow….hmmm makes you wanna get busy making it happen!

We began giving the government “power” over our children with the beginning of government-run schools. The minute your child walks in the door to a school, your rights cease.

We were the frog put in the pot of cold water, and the heat has been rising for years. I pray it’s not too late.

Has anyone noticed the similarity of this “Right of the Child”, and I hesitate to even suggest such a thing, but with facism.

Does that mean that a child will have the right to override what the state deems ‘for the good of the child’? I think not! Because the state will not believe, as any parent will attest to, that the child has the knowledge and background to make their decisions.

This is not ‘the right of the child’ but the right of the state to intrude where they should not.

I wonder how proud of one another you all are, patting yourselves on the back for complaining in unison about the prospect of the state removing your “right” to inflict pain upon your children.

Last I checked, when a child is born, the placenta follows, but no instruction manual or edible wisdom. In fact, if anything akin to an instruction manual shows up at all, it is from the state.

The denial of the rights of the child, as advocated on this forum, would inevitably lead to situations in which parents could legally beat their children, legally subject them to an unwanted marriage, legally subject them to genital mutilation, etc.

What is the problem with recognizing that children, as human beings, have rights? Why do so many of you cry so loudly that the government is after your children, when it is actually attempting to protect the children for whom there is no advocate? Why would so many of you deny a child access to such an advocate?

Parents have no innate wisdom as to how they should raise their children. Most of you would claim to rely upon the bible for that ‘wisdom’, but most of you are guilty of cherry-picking the aspects of the bible that suit you.

“Spare the rod…”? What about ’stone the rebellious child’? Slavery anyone?

I’ll accept answers only from men — the bible is clear that women are not to speak publicly, and that the man is the head of the household.

[/sarcasm]

Get real, people. Children are notoriously neglected in legal proceedings, and only recently have they received much at all in the way of legal attention. Prior to this century, children had no rights whatsoever, and were subjected to hard labor. Prior to the 1960s, beating one’s child was so commonplace that its practice was unquestioned.

Someone on here lamented times past, when the world was a “better” place. News flash, honey — it wasn’t. Rather, the ratio of ignorance to education was much higher. Granted, your statements here have made it clear that most of you do indeed prefer such an arrangement, but I, for one, will oppose you.

–
Stan

I agree, Mom. There is no consistency here. The state controls everything, and does not care about children’s rights any more than it cares about parental rights. Everything is done for their own agenda, which is total control.

I’m just stunned by how many people nonchalantly go about their daily lives, wagging their heads at us ‘conspiracy theorists’, refusing to face the fact that THE SKY IS FALLING!

The socail services of today are nothing but home wreckers!
If you have running water, are able to care for your child and your child is well taken care of. That does not given them reason to take your child.

If your child is correctly strapped in an approved child protective seat that does not give them the righ to take our children.

Correction YES IT DOES! IT HAPPENED TO ME! AND THEY DID’T WANT TO GIVE ME BACK MY CHILDREN 13 YRS, AGO SO THEY TOLD THEM THAT I WAS DEAD!

NOW I AM TRYING TO RE-ESTABLISH A RELATIONSHIP WITH MY CHILDREN. THEY ARE STILL TELLING MY CHILDREN HORRIBLE THINGS ABOUT ME THAT ARE NOT TRUE!

WHO SAYS BIG BROTHER IS NOT OUT THERE ?

I SAY PARENTS BE WHERE!

MR

So what should new parents do, MR? Just go along with the system and plaster smiles on our faces? Or do we stand for our parental rights and lose our babies?

I am so sorry that happened to you. May the Lord grant the grace it takes to keep working on those relationships.

I agree that the government wants to indoctrinate our children as early as possible. And yes, when they walk in the school, you give up your parental authority while they are there. Whatever books they want them to read or films they want them to watch, your protests are unfounded. Separation of church and state. So, if the Bible says one thing, that has no bearing on the school’s right to educate as they see fit.

The teachers are in loco parentis. This is so serious. And, be careful of government programs. They have more access to records than you think. Once I allowed my children to participate in an after school program dental screening (it was free). Within two weeks a woman called going over the children’s history and asking numerous questions of things in their medical records in the doctor’s office but not on the free screening forms. For example, there was a check up on the vision screening. Also, there was information on a leg problem. I kept asking her who she was and why she was calling me to ask about tings that had nothing to do with the free dental screening. I was aware of the medical bureau (like a medical bureau).

I got the impression that they would have taken the children. But, I informed the woman that my children have a private physician, which apparently she was able to pull those records from, and that all of their care is taken care of by the physician. No further problems occurred. But, I think it was another way that others without private physicians are sought out for case workers. Being an active officer at the time, I was able to terminate her “questioning.”

Government has no place in our children’s lives. If we break the law, then there should be an investigation. I no longer allow my children to participate in any free programs after that experience. I thought it was saving me a trip but it quickly was turned to a nightmare.

Our nation has become too dependent on our government to do things for us. Even in my case, I was allowing a government initated program to do something I normally do - take my kids in for checkups. And, as soon as the door was opened, things were turning ugly.

We cannot give our children over to government to raise. The statistics are dismal for children raised by the system. We just have to address abuse as it is reported and continue to ensure parents receive support so that they can be the best parents. There’s no reason to relinquish parental authority because of a few bad apples.

Parents have been doing a fantastic job raising their children. Yes, other countries may have problems but that’s no reason to undermine our Constitutional Rights.

Sounds like peer pressure in its worse form. Some are giving in and believing that the government should take over.

Holy Scripture says, “I did not give you the Spirit of Fear, but of love, of power, and of sound mind.” 2 Tim 1:7, and “For ye have not received the Spirit of Bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of Adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.” Rom 8:15. Nothing happens that God does not allow. We are to stand firm on His Holy Scripture,
so that “When the enemy comes in like a flood, God shall raise His standard against him.”, and He is Omniscient(All knowing),Omnipotet(All Powerful), and Omnipresent(can be everywhere at once, should He want. “Be still, and know that I am Lord.”

Thank you Lynda for That power word[from God] If we focus on all the things that could happen we will be in fear. Stand on the rock of your salvation and he will give you peace and pray, pray, pray!!!!

Boy, there is a lot of selective religion in this debate. I think Stan had some good points. It is easy to glorify the olden days, to forget about the lynchings, the mass ignorance (which we seem to be somehow approaching again), and the unmitigated assault on the environment. There has to be a balance between protecting what we love and allowing individuals to make their own choices. It is a hard, if not impossible, balance to strike.

Last I checked, unborn children have no rights in our country, so it is odd that born ones are getting this fuss made over them…. Our country is so warped. -But save the polar bears! Kill the unborn HUMANS, but save those furry things that growl and eat people.

I do agree with most of you when you communicate that this is an undesirable situation (to say the least), and I do want to arm myself with knowledge and wisdom so that my family is protected. I imagine that you also want to protect your families as much as you are able. After reading through all the comments I am discouraged. If everyone who is upset over this offers complaints, but does not educate themselves and try to encourage positive action, what good will come? Nothing! People will disdain us - like Stan - and yes, I did notice that people only bashed Stan and did not offer any rational arguments to his thoughts and opinions. Wisdom and helpful knowledge can be gained from people with opposing viewpoints. We can learn from people like Stan, and bashing him, even though we disagree with his opinions, will not help responsible parents with their children, the government, or other people (like your neighbors) who have the power to help or hurt.

LMBO @ Mandy! You are so right BTW. Cats and dogs have commercials dedicated tyo their lives but children are murdered all day everyday in this country with not one commerical on their behalf.

Amy. do you have any “rational” arguments against stan?

It seems to me that there are many arguments “against” Stan that consist mainly of mocking or fearful railing against his call to reason. There is nothing wrong with reasonably discussing an issue, especially with people of opposing viewpoints.

I don’t believe that sarcasm, mockery, a complaining spirit, a fearful spirit, or idle speech have any place in a discussion among Christians; in fact, God speaks clearly against all of those but sarcasm (which could be placed in the “mockery” category) in the Bible we hold as Truth. Please remember Whom we speak before, as He is not absent from this discussion, whether we think of Him or not.

Have a care, you who call yourselves Christian (as do I). Remember the parts of the Bible that call us to live in the world so as to give no man cause for offense against us. “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.”

Having said that, I am more concerned that the U.S. must not ratify the CRC, as it would constitute an almost unprecedented abdication of our Sovereignty within our own borders. The UN has its good points, but it has no place in the formation of our laws according to our own constitution. We DO need to do what we can to see that the CRC does not inject itself into the rulings of our court system.

More importantly, we need to remember that the Lord is on His throne and none of this escapes His attention, “for which of you by being anxious, can add a single hour to the span of his life?”

Peace.

There is no wisdom or knowledge to gain from debating with Stan/Christe or the half dozen other names he/she uses here to reinforce his/her own points and try to get people to compromise.

If your here for compromise,Stan…then by all means compromise.As for getting people on our side,no worries there either.The more people become knowledgeable of these draconian laws and the practices of the barbaric agencies who enforce them the more they balk.Take the good people of New Zealand for example…..

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08062301.html

It’s ironic really,Stan and those like him who preach of enlightenment and the ignorance of the masses are actually the ones who are bringing people together in the cause of parental rights.

Thank you Amy and Mark; I have played the devil’s advocate on this site before, and as with then, I am usually met with emotion-laden rants with no logical substance whatsoever. I appreciate your rare offer of rationality.

Not to get into a side discussion, one of Mark’s comments struck a chord:

[The CRC] would constitute an almost unprecedented abdication of our Sovereignty within our own borders.

But the notions of sovereignty and borders are each arbitrary constructs, based on outmoded colonial thinking. The entire earth has been colonized, and with technology being what it is, we have to recognize as a species that we are interdependent — no one country is independent of any other, no matter how hard xenophobes like the junta in Myanmar try.

Humans have to start thinking globally, and this requires a gradual relaxing of our contentious notions of national security, our arrogant and selfish assertion of control over “our” land, and a recognition of the right of the world’s population to govern the world. Clinging to sovereignty and national identity necessarily requires an intentional ignorance of the plights of less fortunate populations. Indeed, the U.S. policy in these matters is selective isolationism; we require the labor of so-called third world countries to make cheap products for us, but we refuse to acknowledge the grueling conditions in which those laborers work, and we refuse to offer what we would consider a decent living wage. We use them.

Anyway, enough of a threadjacking — Mark’s comment, as I said, struck a nerve, and the point needs addressed, especially in a forum such as this, with a disproportionately high number of professing Libertarians. Civil liberties are wonderful, I agree, but they should be extended to everyone on the planet, and our inter-connectedness requires a re-thinking of the concepts of sovereignty. We are not truly sovereign if we rely on a foreign entity, and the U.S. is especially guilty of that foreign reliance. We would collapse if we lost that scaffolding.

–
Stan

Vote against it just because it is proposed. No sweat if it is passed and accepted by our “representatives & senators”. They are only elected public servants. We, the people, are the government and this action would only qualify as their attempt to “overthrow the government” since our government is “of the people, by the people, for the people”. No misunderstanding there and I’ll fight against anything other than that precept using necessary force. Better leave our country and U.S. Constitutional God-given rights alone!

The African adage, “It takes a village to raise a child” to me means our children are influenced by the outside community as well as the inside family. The truth of the adage makes sense when one looks at the global problems with drugs and alcohol, public schools, social workers, and government control of parents and children. It has become very difficult to be a parent today with all this outside control and influence. Today we are not only struggling to raise healthy children and instill lasting values, but we are fighting the “authority” and the “experts” (of which there are NONE), in order to do that in peach without outside interference. Government and public schools do not encourage decency but do quite the opposite, thereby making a strong family and strong decent family ties extremely important in a child’s life. The world is upside down and the universe is out of whack. What is the purpose?

“Rights” - so sick and tired of all the man made sick rights. When children were able to work and help out at home, they developed a strong work ethic. It was that strong work ethic that gave us so many inventions and great industries. The granting, giving, taking away, and all that baloney is what has destroyed this country. One by one our natural rights are being eroded - by first giving, then taking away. Remember, the government should never be allowed to “give” us any “right,” for this gives them the power to also “take away.” When we learn to take full responsbility for our decisions (and get out of the blame game) then we will begin to understand this concept.

There are some great posts here. And, everyone is entitled to opinions. I ponder good points made and see no reason to “win anyone over” to my way of thinking. As such, listening to Stan’s opinion above, I do not agree (and I am free in our country to do so). The ideas of the founding fathers during colonial times, in my opinion, should not be outdated, and this is where the division is coming in. This is why judges are legislating from the bench, our president is declaring war, etc. This is why people are becoming aware of what the federal reserve is really about. And, this is why people understand that the CRC is dangerous to the future. This is not being afraid. This is about looking at history to show us what the ideas of of one world government will do. When in history has there been a dictator, or country, that wanted all to be the same treated people fairly? History has taught us very differently, even before the Saddam Hussein’s and Hitler’s. And, over and over again, there is religious oppression. The intolerance of religious freedom is America has reached a new proportion. From those such as the Mayer HBO show use shock and awe of name calling followers of Jesus’ to Expelled movie revealing that now people (supposedly well-educated scientists) believed some aliens left dna on crystals to form us. Not, God the alien creater, some other alien possibly.

As with the writer above spoke about the whole village raising a child, and others speak of the past ills of children, very important historical relevance was omitted. For example, in the book by Dr. Poussaint, he speaks of the necessity of African Americans having complete obedience of their children in the past. There have been those who purported in other places to speak on race and indicate lower income minorities spank more often, etc. Again, a judgment made without all the relevant facts. To disobey in the past to a Black (African American) child may have meant a lynching. That child’s moral base in those times may not have correlated with a child from another race.

Family experiences are different. Some people have a stronger faith than others. Some don’t even have the size of a mustard seed (which Christ let us know if we just had that amount we could do great things). Some people believe in the pills doctors give. The Bible lets us know that herbs were given for our healing and those substances are found in many medicines.

Laws for children are passed as our citizens have seen the need for it. For example, we now have child labor laws to protect children who were being overworked and not receiving an education. I am a parent and I still cannot violate that even with the PRA. If there is a violation, the officers and case workers still have the authority to take action.

However, I don’t want the government determining which job my child should have or that it cannot be a church-related job. For, then they can monitor their food, dress, careers, etc., one-by-one.

We did have way more inventions in the past. There “seemed” to be more respect for people in the past, including their beliefs.

We will have neighbors who agree that we don’t want infringement on our Constitution. We will have neighbors who believe the Constitution can be changed and should be changed to the peer pressure the world is putting upon us. We will have neighbors who sit by and do nothing. They just won’t take a stand. None of this is new. This is how our country was founded. There were those willing to fight for the freedom and rights the country was founded on. And, that must happen again today.

America is being asked to give up its rights and privileges to adopt the world’s view. I don’t like what the other countries are offering us. While our country is not perfect, I am proud to be an American.

As for the poorer countries, it’s not because we do not have a one world government people are suffering in other countries. As we look in the history of the countries, you will find corruption and many other problems. America is not taking care of its own and we continually talk about going overseas and getting into other peoples’ problems. Yes, we should be a Good Samaritan. But, let’s follow that example. The Samaritan didn’t give up who he was to help someone else in trouble. Nor did he adopt the other person’s beliefs or government.

Yes, we also depend on others and with the way our government is borrowing and spending, we need a good Samaritan; however, we do not need them to come in and force laws on us and make us adopt their government and regulations because they provide us with assistance.

Our government has not treated men with syphillis and watched them die. We have had doctors who have performed female hatchery on women and the government looked the other way for years (as well as the medical board), and there are many other things that our government has erred at doing (or failed to take action). It’s bad when the President has to address the issue. I don’t want to join with other countries who have more gross human violations than have been on our shores.

I am not putting other countries down. I’m just proud to be part of this one - America. I believe the principles are sound and should be protected. Stan and others are free to disagree for this is their right. But, ultimately, Americans need to ensure that they are voting to determine which direction our country will go. Our voices need to be heard to ensure we remain the land of the free (not perfect) but free. There is no good time to give up the fight for freedom. But, in this generation, we don’t know what that’s like - to not have it- so it’s easy to forget why our ancestors fought so hard for it. And, like so many other empires that have fallen, America may fall to the same, and there will have to be a revolution that will take place (oops, there is one July 12th) that says, we want our rights back!

So DGUOR:

If, in the next dozen years or so, China begins to emit the vast majority of the world’s greenhouse pollutants, and directly contributes to global warming, which in turn causes various other countries to have to contend with drought, flooding, and similar issues as a result, is China obligated to surrender to the will of the global community?

If you deny global warming, I can offer a different version:

Does Iran have a right to pursue and develop nuclear weapons? Against the will of the global community? Why or why not?

The CRC represents a global attempt at unifying humanity, and while we may disagree regarding the specifics of the CRC, denying that global unification is both positive and inevitable is appropriate only if you are an ostrich.

For better or for worse, the U.S. will also have to answer to the global community, but if it makes you feel better, rather than consider global unification a reduction of American sovereignty, you may consider it an increase in the American empire. Surely, you can see that any sort of global unification will necessarily embrace the ideals so dear to Americans — it is only the borders and scope of governance that will change. ‘We the people’ shifts from being meant only as the Colonial Americans to being meant as all humanity.

Global unification — including self-governance — is as deeply American as any ideal possibly could be. If you suggest otherwise, then why exactly are we in Iraq?

No, deny the CRC if you will, but deny it based only on its text, not on its “governing” body. The earth will be united one day, and for the sake of the world’s poor, oppressed, and hungry, that day cannot come soon enough.

–
Stan

Hmm… this is all interesting. I can tell most of the folks commenting here have not spent much time in public education. Do you know how many students are in the classrooms of today? Do you know what kids need to know to be part of the future? If you truly have faith, do you know what it takes to educate ALL students? I believe our children need the best, and government should be doing more, not less.

I am not signing up for the parent of the year award here on this blog, and yes, I have spanked my children in the past - but as long as you are providing the bare essentials and are not severely abusing your children, the government will gladly stay out of your way. The government wants us to raise our own children to become Americans - free thinkers. They really don’t have the time, money or want to do it for us.

Yes, why are we in Iraq? And what about when the world doesn’t want Americans to carry guns? What about when the other communities of the world agree that Christianity is based on mystical fables and we are told to cease and desist from worshipping the one true God? If we tell other countries what to do, then they will feel/believe they have the right to tell us what to do.

And, this goes back to the parents who do not want the government in their homes mandating morality and spirituality to their families. I have been in classrooms (I was D.A.R.E. certified as an officer) and the plight of public education is sad. My sister (working on her doctorate) also has done extensive work on the state of the education system. Her courses are with many other individuals pursuing their doctorate degrees through Argosy University. The government does not need to do more. We need to help ourselves. That’s why home schooling is so effective. Yes, there are bad apples in the schools and in home schooling. However, home schooling is growing in America because parents just are satisfied with the educational system. If you return to the roots of our government, we wouldn’t have increased the education department. I do not agree to teaching for tests (automated responses). Children need to be able to be free thinkers. They need creativity. They need need their parents. They don’t need more government.

I want to continue to have the right to believe my Creator (I do know how to spell that ) and not have to be concerned about the erosiion of our Constitution.

The world can collaborate, agree to agree, or agree to disagree, but we don’t have to have a one world government to do so.

If there is this much division in America (as noted here in these posts), I certainly don’t want to have to deal with the rest of the world, too.

Oops. Parents just “aren’t” satisfied with our educational system…

Perhaps we need smaller government in America? Perhaps individual states should be granted autonomy, to be treated as independent nations? Perhaps that level of government is still too large, and we should grant individual counties (or wards) autonomy?

How far down the rabbit hole of smaller government would you prefer we go, and do you still deny the interdependence between each nation on earth, and our subsequent rights to dictate policy, at least to some extent, to other nations, and their right to likewise dictate to us?

The U.N. is a base recognition that the world is small compared to its size in the 19th century, and microscopic compared to its size in previous centuries and/or millennia. It is an admission on the parts of the nations of the world that unilateralism is no longer acceptable, and that one nation’s actions (or inactions, as it were) can and do affect its neighboring countries, and that as technology and inter-connectedness grow, we each have the right — nay, the responsibility — to dictate to other countries how they behave, to certain extents.

Denial of the future — that is, an eventual one-world government — is extreme shortsightedness, and those who hold such isolationist, nationalist views will be left behind as the rest of the world starts getting along. In fact, those isolationist/nationalists will likely be the groups from which the vast majority of terrists come.

The CRC is a good thing. Too many people in here cry and whine about their “rights” as parents — to punish by beating, to teach based on religious precepts (however unfounded), to maim and disfigure, etc. (Commence further crying, denying that any of the preceding apply in your special case). What entirely too few of you admit is that children, too, have rights, and that while your particular parenting style may well be positive on the whole, there are a great many parents whose parenting styles are negative, and reactionary legislation like the PRA would protect not only the “good” parents, but the “bad” parents as well.

I have said before, but since so few are able to comprehend it, I shall say it again:

Promoting the PRA, and denying the CRC, is tantamount to promoting child abuse, religious indoctrination of any kind (including non-Christian indoctrination — Islam, Voodoo, Witchcraft, etc.), and genital mutilation, and to denying standard medical procedures, the right to an education, and the right to abstain from child-labor. These are but a few consequences of enacting the PRA and denying the CRC.

Look around you! Look at the examples of poor parenting around you every day! Do these children not deserve some legal protection? Put your children first, rather than lying to yourself (and the rest of us) by claiming that you are putting your children first, when the truth is that you want only to protect your own beliefs and customs, regardless of the impacts — positive or negative — they may have on your children or anyone else’s.

I tell you the truth — if you succeed in enacting the PRA and blocking the CRC, you will have welcomed the very things you fear. After the first case of child abuse is upheld as a parent’s right due to the PRA, it will be repealed, and religious intolerance will grow beyond your current perceptions of it.

Good luck with that.

–
Stan

BTW, Stan,

Did you see this from last year?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57830

See what happens when you don’t agree with another country? American missionaries are being deported because they will not “turn” their children over to German education. They consider homeschooling a part of parallel societies. Thus, it is not “tolerated.” Not already impacting Americans????

Christians already know that one day there will be a one world government. Christians already know that fatal persecutions are ahead. And, for the very reasons cited above, there is a need for the PRA.

Officers and case workers will still be able to do their jobs with the enactment of the PRA. Do not blame parents if officers and case workers are not trained to perform their duties. Not passing the PRA because officials don’t know how to do their jobs is illogical. The reason there is such a problem today are the rogue caseworkers who are causing havoc in families lives. That’s what the stories here are all about. That’s why parents are here on the site.

The government does not need more control to increase their number of rogue caseworkers. Persecution has always been a part of the socialist government. The example of Germany above demonstrates this again. Not only have we seen it in the past, it is happening today.

Our Constitution discourages isolationism. However, our current practices encourage isolation. Practices such as interfering in other countries, changing factions we support, etc. Those countries want us to go away. They hold up our flag and shout, “Kill America.” America is unpopular in many places these days. While our country still does a lot of good, we continue to demonstrate our need to grow. Charity begins at home. I don’t believe big government is working in our homes and I don’t believe it’s going to be any better for the world.

As for this statement:

“(Commence further crying, denying that any of the preceding apply in your special case).”

fewer people respect or ponder quotes when personal attacks begin. The issues are not discussed and no message is received.

I think you’ve explained your position well (Stan) as others have. I have learned from the posts and hope respectful and insightful dialog will continue. I don’t really think you believe that those visiting this site will agree with you. But your posts provide a glimpse into why people oppose the PRA. Your posts have made me more supportive of the PRA based on my beliefs because I have perceived that if your viewpoint would be enacted it would infringe on my religious freedom. You have to cry out for freedom. People have walked, cried, and died for it. I don’t think you’re having the effect of “changing anyone’s mind” but you are discussing great issues.

I hope that you continue to post respectfully and that more viewpoints can be shared.

[…] continued here Powered by […]

I wonder how much of this is being done to push the homosexual agenda into people’s homes as it has been fed to our children at almost every public school in America? We already have no rights to govern what our kids are being taught (or indoctrinated to) in school and now here it comes into our homes. In Europe, the homosexual agenda is becoming the norm instead of the exception, and as everyone knows, the U.S. has rapidly begun following suit. They have shoved this degenerate philosophy down our throats with legislation providing special protections and privelidges for homosexuals and have told us in no uncertain terms that they will indoctrinate our children to support and embrace this evil and that there is nothing we can do to stop them. Is there anyone else that remembers that this is the exact MOS that Hitler used? Is anyone else afraid?

I agree with the previous writer that God has not given us the spirit of fear but love, power and a sound mind. But I understand the “concern” expressed. However, we are victorious in Christ and because we know the final outcome, we do not have to worry about what “man” will do. God is still on the throne and in control, but, most importantly, He is always on time.

Nevertheless, we must continue to “work” while it is day. In that, we must follow through doing the right thing. We must not be weary in pursuing freedom, protecting the rights we’ve been blessed with, and being lights to the world.

To erode our rights, the Constitution has to be attacked on a variety of fronts. A one world government will not happen overnight. There are steps to it becoming a reality. Remember that the Bible teaches us that people will prefer lies over the truth. People are into instant satisfaction and the “tickling” of the ears. They claim there is no absolute truth.

As we continue to support the PRA that has been introduced, we are preserving freedom for children for many years as well as protecting our Constitutional rights.

The Government has no right to assume it has custody of children. This is not Nazi Germany, this is supposed to be America.
Yesterday I met with the head of CPS/CYS of Pennsylvania, Richard Gold, with several other victimized birth families and foster parents, trying to expose the corruption of our local CPS.
He claims there is no corruption and that CPS/CYS can’t be changed or done away with.
I reminded him that my children are not ‘property of the state’ and fair warning that any intrusion by said state will not be tolerated!

Bulletproof, unfortunately, too many people are apathetic these days to understand how serious the situation is until their families are attacked.

I came to this site actually thinking it was about sane people discussing real rights. However I am reminded that I believe raising a child as a “christian” is abuse. Teaching them hate and intolerance (homosexual agenda?) is abuse. I’m grateful we do have a system that sometimes recognizes these abuses and pulls children from abusive, neglectful and downright crazy homes.

hate? no, intolerance of sin yes!! we are not called by God to tolerate sin. May you open your eyes to the truth.

Stan, thank you for advocating for America’s children. I love your arguments FOR the CRC and AGAINST the PRA.

It seems that some people miss the fact that children not only are their parents’ child, but that they are persons with emergent capacities, and members of society as well.

Society’s norms of a child’s best interest, or the older child’s own decisions, might in many cases very well be a better indicator of a child’s best interest than parental wishes.

I would have absoulutely hated to grow up in a country like America, where parents have almost total control of a minor’s life. I had good parents that gave me what I needed, but they never understood my inner feelings or my emotional problems. They were like most parents incapable of making good decisions for me, since no persons, not even parents, fully understand another person’s inner desires and feelings. Any parental consent requirement made me extremely angry and made my life worse. I rightly wanted to be a person of my own and a member of society, not be regarded only as my parents child. I am so glad I didn’t grow up in America.

The CRC is an effort to make the lives of the world’s children better. Maybe the biggest effort ever made on this planet to improve the lives of children. It has potential to improve the lives of millons.

From my point of view, anyone opposing it cannot truly be concerned about child welfare. But the world has never been fair, has it? Survival of the fittest, The rights of the strongest and the powerful have always prevailed at the cost of the weaker and less powerful.

How can the CRC possibly be againts a child’s best interst? Don’t come to me with the argument of the scary “government”, this is about vulnerable children’s rights.

2 Chronicles 7:14 says, “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”

God is not calling for the entire nation of the USA to humble themselves and repent, but He is calling HIS PEOPLE (us) to pray and turn from OUR wicked ways. THEN HE will hear us and heal our land.

Let it begin with me, should be our motto.

I agree with this web site and with legislation, but it will never work unless we do the former. God is now and always in control. He turns the thoughts of a kings mind like a river wichever way He wants…

Let us humble ourselves, and turn from whatever is wicked in our own lives (gossip, lying, cheating, lust…etc… all the little things we tell ourselves are “normal” for humans and even Christians…

Maybe if we take God seriously, He will take us seriously when we ask.

Lene,

SO growing up outside was great? why did you hate it and why did it make your life worse? Sounds to me like you may still be a rebellious child who couldnt stand to obey another person and that is a character flaw and has nothing to do with america. Good luck with that though you sound miserable.

Lisa,

I am a 36 year old married woman with a son of my own, 8 years old. I have a Master degree from university, and reagard myself as a responsible employee and citizen. I am satisfied with my life.

As a minor, I was a very responsible student and actually always the top student in my class. I never did anything like staying out too late, smoke or steal.

Why should I as a successful teenager who perfectly well could take care of myself have to obey anyone else, when I actually could make the best decisions myself?

To be treated like an irresponsible child made me angry and feel like my efforts were not recognized, or that there was no point in me being as responsible as I was. I can stand by those feelings even today, and I think a psycologist could testify to the fact that being treated as irresponsible promotes irresponsibility.

However, this changed when I was about 16, because in the country I grew up in minors of that age have the right to make educational (and medical and religious) decisions for themselves. Thank God. That’s what I mean by saying I’m glad I didn’t grow up in America, where I would have had to wait untill 18.

This probably was a bit too much about me, wasn’t it, but I felt I had to explain a little.

This is not the point, though, is it?

The point is you want to make children propery, and not human beings in their own right. You want to regard children just as somebody’s children, and not members of society in their own right.

This will make children second-class people, if looked upon as people at all.

Children need to be treated as persons worthy of respect in order to grow into healthy adults. The PRA will do exactly the opposite.

But America is a great country, right? WEll, I am not sure the family of former high school student Catrina Lewis from New Orleans agree with you. She died of an asthma attack at school because the school spent half an hour trying to contact her mother instead of an ambulance as she requested. She was not regarded as a person but as somebody’s child. Her mother’s right to decide was given greater importance than her life and right to necessary healthcare.

I have come across at least three other cases from America where students have died of asthma because they were not given the right to take care of themselves by carrying an inhaler at school or on the school bus. Their right to necessary, life- saving medication were denied.

Great, yeah? It doesn’t matter if children die because they are not allowed to take care of themselves, does it? They don’t have any rights anyway.

Apartheid ended in South Africa, Women have been liberated in much of the world, American slaves have been freed, but children are still not real people but slaves of their parents.

Don’t get me wrong. Parents are the most important factor in most children’s lives, and they should continue to be so. But why would children’s rights destoy the relationship between the parent and child?

Children need two things to grow into healthy adults :

1.good, loving parents
2.children’s rights.

These are not mutally exclusive. They both work towards the same goal : the child¨s best interest. Any parents who truly want the best for their child should support children’s rights, not
oppose them.

But I don’t think you will understand my viewpoint no matter how I try to spell it out. We obviousely live on different planets.

And you also have the case of the New York boy who died because the doctor wouldn’t see him because his parents didn’t accompany him.

What could have saved his life?
The PRA or the CRC?
My bet is the CRC which gives the child the right to optimal health.

The PRA would make it even less likely for doctors to use the emergency exception to help a child in need and act in the child’s best interest.

If a child breaks a leg: Sorry, boy, we can’t help you. Your mum is not here. We can’t act in your best interest.

“Why should I as a successful teenager who perfectly well could take care of myself have to obey anyone else, when I actually could make the best decisions myself?”

Children obey your parents for this is right. God knew what he was doing when he put children in our care and told us to teach them the right way.

so as a successful adult do you obey your husband as God says?

point is, we dont need anyone coming into our homes and telling us what to do with our kids outside abuse period!

Well, as I said, different planets:-)

Thanks for the discussion, though.

God knew what he was doing when he put children in our care and told us to teach them the right way.

Except that’s not what happened.

What happened was that your male friend inserted his penis into your vagina, and after a minute or so, he ejaculated. His sperm swam up the fellopian tube until it came into contact with your ovum, at which point one particular sperm (two, in a few cases) penetrated the egg, resulting in fertilization and conception.

At no point was any special knowledge imparted unto you, unless you maintain that it was delivered via your male friend’s sperm (perhaps the millions of unsuccessful sperm which were absorbed?).

This romantic vision of human pregnancy is true not only for you, but for all human pregnancies, so unless you wish now to argue that the crack-whore who gives birth to an addicted child has had this child placed into her care by god, then you must necessarily retract your fallacious claim.

Being a parent is not a right. Parents, as adults in optimal conditions, already have a veritable plethora of rights. Having a parent, on the other hand, is most certainly a right — one which is neglected in roughly two-thirds of American households if my statistics are accurate. Children, as minors, and as persons not responsible for many of their actions, are the ones in need of a set of rights.

Lene’s examples of asthma patients dying because their parents were not consulted, my examples of children whose parents refuse a simple blood transfusion, or my example of a child with Type-I diabetes — whose parents opted to pray rather than provide her with a simple insulin shot — all of these examples betray what your PRA would actually protect: Criminal negligence on the part of the parent, abuse in the name of religion and/or parental prerogative, and denial of education, medical attention, and healthy development.

No, not all parents would be so evil, but certainly some would. No, the PRA doesn’t endorse bad parenting, but certainly it protects bad parents. If you enjoy flaunting your support for the protection of child abuse, or denial of basic medical attention, just so you can sleep content with the fact that you can raise your daughters to keep their mouths shut in church (per 1 Cor. 14:34) and be forever submissive to their husbands, well, sleep well.

People like DGUOR, who openly proclaims his (her?) role in assisting abusive parents, are the people to whom you seem to listen, but you evidently don’t hear them. DGUOR has stated several times that he offers lectures to parents, to inform them as to how they should respond if the CPS comes knocking, and how to say things like “I applied reasonable physical discipline”, or something equally repulsive, in place of the true statement, “I beat my child with my belt”.

Of course abusers (and their enablers) would support the PRA. Of course cult-like religionists would support the PRA. Reasonable, thinking people, on the other hand, should oppose it, and oppose it vocally. It seeks to protect all parents under the same uncaring umbrella — an umbrella which includes not only good parents, but the astonishingly terrible parents as well.

–
Stan

Stan, I do have knowledge imparted to me and it comes from the Holy Spirit. God sent the holy spirit as a helper the bible says.

And yes God does not make mistakes and he gives us children as gifts.

The problem is that noone can tell which are “good” and “bad” parents. THere are far more good parents than bad. And we have a right to be protected from liberalists like yourself that think we have no rights.

This site or pro parental righsso what are you doing here?

I am a parent. I was directed here by a standard inquiry regarding a matter on which we will no doubt disagree.

Like you, I recognize that there are “far more good parents than bad”. Unlike you, however, I shift the focus onto protecting the children laboring under bad parents, while you seek to protect all parents — good and bad alike — for better or for worse.

Unless you would attest that the “holy spirit” imparts knowledge upon all parents, your statement is merely an example of special pleading. While you may well have some divine parental instinct, you cannot possibly believe that all parents have this same instinct. At the least, you cannot deny that many parents ignore it, if they ever had it.

The problem is not that no one “can tell which are ‘good’ and ‘bad’ parents”, but rather it is that it is increasingly difficult to identify the children in crisis versus the children who are not in crisis. The PRA seeks to make it more difficult to identify these children, hence, it protects the abusers.

Having been informed, if you persist, you are necessarily guilty by association. Ignorance is no longer a valid excuse.

–
Stan

The purpose of the PRA has been misconstrued above. There’s a lot of things being blamed on parents above that should not be.

Children can seek emancipation through the courts in America. There are already laws sufficient to address children’s rights. That is why the PRA is being introduced. There are too many judges legislating from the bench and rogue caseworkers who are not following the Constitution.

If you look at the incidents on this blog that have occurred, you will see that is what prompted the PRA. I have been home schooling for many years and for many years I’ve been reading about the rogue case workers in the HSLDA summaries. Just reading the nonsense in state after state summaries, in issues after issue, lets me know that something must be done. Whatever is done may not be perfect, but these families being unjustly affected must be protected.

Taking children away when the parent didn’t know about a drink and no alcohol was found in the child’s system, removing children when people want to adopt children, alleging abuse because children are home schooled…

None of those are reasons for the government to be in American households.

The articles here are not about not being able to reach parents for medical consent. In the cases described, one would need to know all the facts. As teachers serve in loco parentis, there are guidelines for child health and safety. Someone dropped the ball and I’d need to see more records on what happened.

Even in policing, there are guidelines when parents are unavailable. Prior to working in policing, I worked in the medical field.

When the American Revolution was underway, everyone did not agree. But, there were those who fought on for freedom and stood firm in Christian beliefs. Today, the same thing is happening. We have many who want to be part of the socialist one-world movement. They are not concerned about international spy bills on our phones and internet. They are not concerned about the radio frequency identification devices. They are not concerned about banning educational options.

But, those who know the lessons from history (probably those home schooling and those not being taught for tests) are endeavoring to protect American rights. Men lost their lives so that soldiers aren’t marching through our homes eating our food and taking our weapons from us. Oops! This happened in America after the flood. That wasn’t widely televised. But, soldiers took weapons, during non-war time on our soil, from residents in their homes.

So, there are people today still “crying” out for freedom. Our soldiers are “dying.” So, again today, people are walking, crying, and dying for freedom.

The parental rights amendment is necessary to protect parents to have the freedom provided in the Constitution that is being eradicated by those who took an oath and are not living up to that.

This site does have the revolutionaries here. They are the ones who will fight for freedom. This is what this is about - freedom.

I cannot speak of another country but I do not want America to be like other countries. Our court system was designed to provide the opportunities to bring matters before the court. A teenager from my former church hired her own attorney (guardian) during a custody battle. She was heard in the court system.

Most times, the children are not exercising the rights they already have. That’s no reason not to support the PRA. The civil servants need to do their jobs as the voters intended them to. The current state is unacceptable of child services care in the United States.

One thing is certain, the government is not going to do a better job than the parents, overall. History has proven this.

Parents are not perfect. Nothing on earth is. From what has been shared, there is dissatisfaction because of how people were raised.

But, by those who have had good parents, the posts are very different. This makes a huge difference in how the PRA is being understood and accepted. My father was not the desired father but my mother was a very dedicated woman who I am glad for every lesson she shared with me.

I cannot imagine that case workers would have taken me from her. She wasn’t perfect but she was an excellent mother to me and my sibling.

Too many families are being negatively impacted (and losing their life savings) in these unnecessary and ridiculous child protective service’s cases. If you look at the counties receiving money for the placements and adoptions, these are the same ones on the pages of this blog who have been adversely affected without the PRA.

Children have many rights. I have always taught my children respect. I modeled for them what I expected of them.

I don’t believe it is possible to live in a free society and then have no disagreements. Because we’re all able to share our thoughts and enjoy so many freedoms, someone is going to disagree with something said or done.

Good to hear from you again Lisa.

I’m glad the bill has been introduced and that parents are being revolutionaries to continue to protect our American freedoms. Peace to all.

DGUOR,

Thanks good to hear from you to! I have been mia cause I just added another blessing to my family in the form of a 10 pound baby girl!! So now I am 4X comited to the PRA!

Love reading your posts!!

When the American Revolution was underway, everyone did not agree. But, there were those who fought on for freedom and stood firm in Christian beliefs.

Ummm. No. Everyone did not agree, that much is true, but those who “fought on for freedom” were not Christians. They were Deists, schooled in the philosophies of the Enlightenment.

I would’ve expected better from an advocate of home schooling.

I cannot speak of another country but I do not want America to be like other countries.

This statement is self-contradicting. Stating that you don’t want America to become like other countries is speaking of other countries.

Most times, the children are not exercising the rights they already have.

I see. So it is the child’s fault for not being aware of his rights, or is it the parent’s fault for not informing the child? What a calloused, irresponsible statement.

But, by those who have had good parents, the posts are very different.

Do you mean to suggest that opponents of the PRA have somehow been poorly raised, or that their parents were less than ideal? Unlike you, I won’t speak on the behalf of others, but I will say that my own parents, who are still married after over 30 years, who are Christians, who have never raised their voices nor beaten me (though they did indeed utilize spanking with an implement), who never assaulted me physically or sexually — I would say that they qualify as “good” parents, and that your pet theory of PRA opponents coming from broken homes is busted.

But this I loved the most:

We have many who want to be part of the socialist one-world movement. They are not concerned about international spy bills on our phones and internet. They are not concerned about the radio frequency identification devices. They are not concerned about banning educational options.

I realize that sometimes your tin-foil hat can fit a little too snugly, and this may get you on edge. I also realize that constantly drinking hot water, boiled to kill the nanobots ever-present in the city water supply, can make a person cranky. I hope you find a way to relax, despite the knowledge that every existing federal agency, and a few which might not exist, is out to get you.

Look. My stance against the PRA has nothing to do with restricting the “rights” of parents. It has nothing to do with “invading” the homes of “good” parents. It has nothing to do with “persecuting” Christians.

Rather, I seek to ensure the protection of children. Who disagrees with that? I recognize that while most parents are good parents, some are awful parents. Many on this site, DGUOR included, have testified that they have had pretty negative (to put on as nice a spin as possible) experiences in childhood.

I haven’t. My childhood was spectacular. Sure, I think spanking is outmoded, and I believe it enables abusers, and yes, I was indeed spanked, but nonetheless I had a very healthy childhood.

Unfortunately, I know far too many people who haven’t had that experience. A very good friend of mine was molested by his step-father, and although the molestation came to light, there were no formal charges filed. His mother divorced the cretin, and that was that. My friend suffers to this day commitment problems and emotional problems, and although he would claim it has nothing to do with his abuse, it most certainly does.

Where was his protection?

No, the enactment of the PRA wouldn’t especially help his abuser, in this case, but the extra restrictions it places on agencies such as the dreaded CPS would indeed make it more difficult to remove him from the hostile environment.

Yes, people who beat their children, with or without implements, would be federally protected by the PRA. This is not a mischaracterization. If the PRA were enacted, investigations would be potentially stone-walled by even the least resourceful abusers. Abusers who home-school would be given a free pass to beat their children at will, and there would be effectively no recourse anyone could take.

Are all parents abusers? Not even close. Are all homeschooling parents abusers? No again, not even close. Are some, in either case, abusers? Absolutely.

Will the PRA protect the abusers and the non-abusers alike?

Absolutely.

Do not protect abusers. DGUOR is great at positing conspiracy theories, and claiming to want to protect “good” parents, but read between the lines. “Bad” parents — abusers — would be protected. Note also how DGUOR has failed to respond to my accusation of enabling abusers. A defense of that accusation would have softened my position against him (her?), but instead, the same old drivel about judges “legislating from the bench”, or “rogue case workers”, gets mixed in with the latest conspiracy.

What is a “frequency identification device” supposed to do, anyway? You mean a scanner? I’m guessing I know plenty more about what this sort of device might actually be than you do, and I’m certain that you have no idea what sort of application such a device might actually have.

–
Stan

Congratulations! That’s why you’re up late.

Peace and abundant blessings to your family.

Stan,

I am curious as to where you get all of your “information” from?

Ps. Abusers need not be enabled thank you and I wouldnt expect you to understand or know what that is about because you were not abused.

To which information might you be referring?

Re: P.S.

I’m sure what you meant to say, with your implied experience with abuse, is that abusers should not be enabled.

I also note the implication that because I wasn’t abused, I must therefore be unable to empathize with those who have been abused.

Let me ask you — is it because of your history of abuse that you seek to deny children the protection they deserve?

–
Stan

I’m afraid the transparent argument here is Stan’s. The Parental Right’s Amendment is really common sense. Rights that were taken for granted in prior generations now have to be stated and protected. Those like Stan that are against it show to me a fear that concerned parents will continue the movement away from a broken public education system towards home schooling and private schooling to do their best to keep kids away from drugs, premature sex and overemphasized sexual relations and sports. They point to the “Bob Ewells” out there (reference from “To Kill a Mockingbird”) and want to justify taking apart hundreds of families to find one “Bob Ewell.” I am not convinced, mostly because you fail to mention that social work, teaching and other “ministries” attract more pedophiles and social deviants than you would care to admit. Loving, caring parents need to be protected. These systems (CPS and public education) are not the solution.

I have responded in several posts about the protection of abusers. As a retired law enforcement supervisor, I have a particular awareness that that (criminal rights) will always be part of the laws in the United States. In America, that has always been a complaint. Victims, for years, have stated that they were being victimized and the criminals had more protections.

Consider the police officer killed by a man who was drunk but he only got probation or six months? Consider the families whose child was killed in drive-by shootings and the police didn’t read the criminal his rights and he gets off. And so on.

However, the balance of freedom means the courts are not foolproof.

I have also responded about corporal punishment. There are many things to consider…the child, the environment, the goals, to name a few. Also, we need to work within the definitions of what abuse is. I do not believe, according to law, that because someone feels pain that it is abuse. Utilizing pressure points causes pain, but there is no injury. There are self-correcting lessons as well. Just like cubs that chase after a skunk have hard lessons to learn, so do our children. Cubs learn to stay away from that black critter with the bold white alert stripe down its back. I do not believe our courts need to be inundated with charges and cases against hand-tappers and “spankers.” There are serious cases that need attention and the other cases will bog down the court system.

I do not agree with all the religious practices that are out there. However, there is freedom of religion in America and that should not change just because I don’t agree with every religion’s practices. Once I condemn them for praying five times a day, going on vision quests, or kneeling before an object, then they can denounce the cross, the star of David, and communion (as a cannibalistic synbolic practice). Freedom of religion means just that - freedom to worship. If an entity is proven to be harmful and a cult, then it’s not a religion.

Why is there then a sudden distrust of the government concerning taking care of the children? If they haven’t protected children in all these years, how do we believe they are going to do that against the UN?

The issues of beating, molestation, and emotional abuse have been around for years.

Now, we have parents saying, enough is enough. We will not let you continue to intrude in our homes, and certainly not with measures by entities who are not “the people” of the U.S. Constitution.

Should we say that the government has been negligent, irresponsible towards our children? How then can they make the decision to allow the UN step in? How then can we continue to trust case workers?

Conspiracy theories? Do you deny that African American males were not treated for syphilis? Do you deny that the doctors let them die? There was a public apology from the president about the study. This was also done to Native Americans with hysterectomies when the women did not need them (to reduce their numbers). Soldiers marching through American homes, heavily armed? Yes. It is what it is. And so on… I don’t call these things conspiracy though. It is part of a socialist-government mentality. Hitler himself would have been experienced at leading the tests and operations. History teaches us that the minority suffer under socialist governments.

However, I am not speaking of “theories” when I discuss one world governments, etc. My belief is in the prophetic word of God. There are those who believe the scriptures and those who do not. So, it is not about a conspiracy, it is about my belief in the Bible.

The radio frequency devices (that are also in your passports) have already been created and inserted into volunteers. They are in passports now. Again, I do not think that there is a “theory” to be concerned about. As I have posted, God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love, power, and a sound mind. Thus, my words are to encourage the fight for freedom. I never want anyone to read my posts and think that there is a need to fear. I just believe that there is a need for action, not apathy, not just words.

GPS, and the like, has been around for years. However, even officers have had the contracts negotiated as to how their departments can use the information. Hmm… Officers negotiate that, what do you think Americans should be thinking? Again, this is not about fear. But, it is about critical thinking. I have to ask why does everyone in America need a national id card. Why don’t we track the people we let into the country, like the students, visitors for six months, etc.?” If we have immigrants who come here to go to school and want to blow us up, then we should be tracking them. Why do we need all of this for Americans who live here?

BTW, only one sperm can enter the egg. The chemical barrier changes once one sperm enters the egg (FYI). You were helpful with me on the cuckoo bird/do do bird post.

I stand by my comments on the founders. There are great books available to read on beliefs of the founding fathers, how God was an integral part of American being formed. Were there unbelievers? Sure. They were there too.

I stand by my statement on other countries. I am not going to tear each thing about them, as I have not studied their laws. However, we had the first formal Constitution, and it’s exceptional. So, I do not want to become an extension of another country. I am proud to be American based on the principles in the supreme legal law of the land of the United States. I am a patriot standing for freedom.

I am for protecting parents because the parents have the best interests of the child. I have worked on committees and task forces. I know how corrupt the government can be when it has absolute power.

I have not read anything in the PRA that will prevent qualified case workers and officers from doing their jobs. No amendment or law will take away the ability of the officers, case workers, and judges to do their job. To support parents is to support the children.

I heard something wonderful today in the pottery studio. One of the children said (bragging) “I have three grandmothers.” The child he was speaking to responded, “I have one grandmother and that’s all I need.”

I had a good mother. That’s all I needed. And that’s what our children need.

Reflecting on my time in patrol and as a supervisor, there were not more children needing protecting. More parents needed protecting from their children and case workers. The numbers just don’t show that the children should have laws superseding the parents authority. Are there tragic cases? Most definitely. But, just as we do not overturn our system to presume guilty to benefit the criminals, we should not overturn parental authority to give rise to children to have a generation “test out” kids’ rights. As I look at nature, the parents teach their young. There are a few that lay eggs and leave the offspring to care for themselves. But, nature gave them other protections (like venom and camouflage). Cubs don’t choose where the den will be. Birds don’t tell the parents to move the next to a different tree or to bring them different food to eat when they bring back supper. Predator offspring don’t tell the parents where to find the food. Prey don’t tell their parents how to hide.

If these animals do not have our cognitive abilities, why would we think that we should do less with our children? Our children need to be guided by us and no UN measures should impact our rights as American citizens to have parental authority usurped.

There’s just no substitute for good training. I have not read any part of the amendment that would overrule police authority for abused children. Further, I have not read any part of the amendment that would prevent a judge from ordering the removal of a child when it is necessary.

I haven’t been retired that many years. Unless there is an overwhelming change that is not in the updates I receive, the number of abusing parents has not been so outstanding to prevent the PRA. There is not an epidemic of parents out of control.

However, I have seen over and over again the abuses of child protective services. Again, not a conspiracy (however, with some of the posts in some counties, that sounds like a conspiracy). I went on the runs with the caseworkers. I supervised officers and conducted investigations in to officer conduct. In the academy, we were warned not to rely on them (caseworkers) but to make our own decisions on the removal of children. That was a very long time ago. And today, if I were still supervising, the advice would be the same knowing what I do about how child protective services operates. In the last five years, I have continued to witness their rogue activities, in addition to the posts here by other families.

I believe that by protecting parental rights we are doing the best thing to protect our children. Not the other way around. When there are abuse cases, they need to be investigated as they always have been. And, the children will be removed by a judge, as they always have been, when abuse is proven. I know that will hurt some of the funding cities are receiving from snatching children away from their parents, but this is America. You should have to prove what you allege. I’ve read the allegations brought to court

I had a family member in one state who was a caseworker. Currently, I have another family member in another state working with families. Nothing has changed since the one who retired and the one who is still working with these issues (in either state). For what I have witnessed with the agencies (and experienced, though not directed negatively against me), I support the PRA.

I firmly believe that qualified officers, judges, and case workers will continue to do their jobs when the PRA is enacted (which I believe will come to pass).

Greg, you were so much more succinct than I. Thanks. (I’m working on that.)

I think one of the problems is the media. All we see is the bad parents, can we have a good parent spot on tv please??

Lisa,
That would be so great! But that’s not breaking news. It’s weird how the post get out of the sequence of date and time. The media makes it seem like there’s an epidemic. But, I never experienced parents as the overall problem while on the department. I didn’t work in departments that specialized in those areas because I didn’t want a view worse than what I already had. It is easy to see cases and become cynical and judgmental.

Exactly!! I never let my kids watch the news cause I dont want their world view to be based on the biased half truths that are spewed on there every day.

Hopefully families are tired enough of the intrusions that they will get off the sidelines and get to work doing something about it!

DGUOR: What exactly is it that you want to do to your children that the Children’s right convention would prevent you from doing??

Obviousely if you’re so keen on parental rights as opposed to the child’s best interest there must be something cruel you want to have the right to do to your children?

That goes for everyone else promoting PRA as well

Lene,

Based on your ever so judgemental opinion above you think that the government knows whats best for our kids.

If so then let me ask you if your kid got hit by a car would you run inside frantically to get the phone only to dial the governments number? So that you can ask them what you should do? because after all they know better than you what you should do with your child.

Lisa, I’m sorry but that’s the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard.

Children’s rights does not prevent a parent from taking care of a child. On the contrary, children’s rights would make sure the parent had the DUTY to call 911 in such a situation.

With your parental rights amendment the parent would be free to NOT call 911 if needed.

What if I wasn’t available so I could call the emergency services? I would hope my child had the RIGHT to healthcare and to get help for his injuries, regardless of parental will or parental availability. With your amendment, the child would risk not getting help if my consent could not be secured.

Children’s rights would make sure the child gets help, not the other way ¨
around.

Whats rediculous is that you think that its ok for the government to decide who what when andd where. they will want to decide what religion next, how would you like it for them to tell you that you have to teah your child about religions or cults for that matter like the kkk…. if they gain the right to tell us what to do then there is no limit to what they can make us do and that is the problem with your small brained theory.

http://www.hslda.org/parentalrights/