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I am a pharmacist. The plan B is a very, very safe pill. On the contrary: NOT taking the pill if needed can lead to an unwanted pregnancy, which in itself is dangerous and involves a lot of suffering. To deny girls of an opportunity to take care of themselves and expose them to the risk of an unwanted pregnancy is cruel and in violation of their rights. Older minors have great capacities to take care of themselves if given the chance.

Lene, I appreciate your input but our point here is in regards to pulling children away from their parents on medical and health decisions. Life decisions are being made by this child and to not have the parents involved is the worst possible thing to do to her.

The debate over abortion and “Plan B” is not what this blog posting was intended for. (and I would appreciate it if everyone could have that debate elsewhere) Children need their parents engaged in their lives. Study after study shows the importance of that. The last thing we should be doing as a society is undermining that relationship. That’s the point.

A key phrase you used was “if needed.” The determination of the “if needed” questions in life must involve the parents if we really want what is best for the girl.

You have the training to lend voice to the science and medical aspects of the decision but not necessarily the relationship necessary to lend voice to the emotional and life issues. I fully expect you to know your children better than mine and I’m certain I know mine better than you. I truly love my children and want what is best for them like I’m sure you would with your children.

Usually at this point someone counters with the “what if the parents are abusing the child?” argument. The short answer is the law has a way for dealing with abuse and it should continue to deal with abuse. But all parents shouldn’t be put into the “child abuser” category when making decisions for their children. For more on that I refer everyone to this part of our FAQs:

http://www.parentalrights.org/learn/answer-center#10

Rich Shipe

Rich,
I agree. Parents are the enemies now. I thought the cold war was over? Seems like the Soviet Union is winning.

Lene,
As a pharmacist, did you believe VIOXX was safe too?

Thanks for the replies. I just think we have very different views.

I happen to be of the opinion, like most people in my country, that children as they grow older have a right to become more and more independent of their parents and make more and more of their own decisions. I truly believe this is in adolescents’ best interest. It gives them diginity and an encouragement to be responsible for themselves.

Good,caring parents are of course an invaluable resource for a minor. It doesn’t mean the parent should have the right to decide everything in a minor’s life, though. Parent’s sometimes make bad choices for their kids. Some parents may not be able to be the supporting parents they ideally should be. Parents don’t have magical powers to understand what is best in all circumstances. If a parent consents to healthcare, it doesn’t mean the healthcare magically becomes safer. In some instances the older minor him/herself is a better judge than the parents of his/her best interest. At age 16 and 17 the minor him/herself should be able to take care of his/her own health and education. I come from a country where minors are emancipated with regard to their education after 10th grade and with regard to their healthcare at age 16. A parent in my country has no right to decide what school, if any, their child should attend after 10th grade. Nor have they any right to consent to healthcare or inspect medical records once their child has turned 16. I am sure you disagree with me, but I think these are really good laws that empowers older minors to take care of themselves and be responsible. And they do: They do make wise decisions about their education and healthcare. By the way, if you were wondering what country this is: I come from Norway. Thank you for reading my views.

Lene, wherever you came from if you believe the ‘rules’ are so great then go back there. Here in the good ole United States of America…you are not legally an adult until the age of 18. Parents have EVERY right to be involved in their childrens medical/physcial/emotional well being. It is our God-given destiny to be involved and make decisions for them/with them.

The American Academy of Pediatrics and The American Medical Association both recognize, as well as the World Medical Association, that confidential healthcare is very important for the health and well-being of adolescents, since they might not seek the care they need if they have to involve their parents. This is not a sign of their immaturity, it’s a sign of their humanity. It is human to avoid the embarrasment of sharing very private things, even with your parents. And I see no reason why they should involve their parents if they are 16 or 17. THeir sexuality is their own.

Just one final comment before I leave this site forever:

Why is the health of the teenager less important than the parental right to control their kid?

Oh yeah, I know what you think. because the parent knows best?

In my opinion, any caring parent who truly want the best for the kids would want them to get confidential medical care for themselves if embarrased to share the details with a parent, rather than not seeking care at all.

My son is only 8. WHen ha grows up I really hope he will be responsible enough to seek medical care if he doesn’t want to involve me. If his attempts to be responsible shold be discouraged, it would break my heart.

Lene, I’m sorry you were told to leave the country. That’s not the tone we want to have in this debate.

You left aside the fact that these pills are being given out in clinics serving middle schoolers - not just 16 and 17-year olds. But even if you agree that 12-year-olds are competent to make such decisions, it doesn’t negate the fact that the pills cause abortions. My daughter is 8 as well, but when she is a teenager if she is experiencing an induced abortion, I am likely to know, but will be unable to provide medical personnel with that important information in the event that I need to take her to get care.
Even if I treat her symptoms at home, unexpected interactions could occur. Would you not, as a pharmacist, ask whether or not she was taking any medication in order to avoid reactions when dispensing? And how could I answer you if I was not informed?

Another danger to this practice is that the party who fathered the child is not identified or impacted. If it is an older teen or adult man who is abusing a younger teen, the abortion pill makes the evidence go away, and he will not be held accountable. But even though the baby goes away, this whole thing will impact the girl further. As a parent, I am responsible for helping her take steps toward independence and maturity, and such an experience can greatly impact her emotional well-being.
So in the end, I respectfully disagree. While she is legally under my care, I need to know.
Site moderators, would you please send to Lene if he has actually left the site for good?

Are the high schools and middle schools going to be around later in these young womens lives to provide psychological counseling for the guilt and regret and shame these children will experience later in life as a result of the knee jerk decision they made at a very vulnerable/crisis time(when even adult reasoning is impaired), with their limited long term cause and effect reasoning ability? Does the school bother to ask if rape or sexual abuse is present? A pregnancy can be ended, but the abuse may not end, and the abuser will continue to roam freely.
This drug has not been studied/used long enough to sufficiantly answer questions about any long term physical effects it may have, even if the FDA says it’s “SAFE”.
When middle and high schools provide this drug, are they also providing unbiased couseling on alternatives to ending a pregnanacy such as: available community support services and child care for those who would like to keep their baby and stay in school, or options for adoption? Are these children, (and they are children, regardless of their increasing independence), informed that a potential fertilized egg, (life), is being evacuated? If you need parental consent to have your ears peirced, this one’s a no brainer. A child’s sexuality, or law breaking social behavior, or legitimate use of psychiatric medications or others is NOT their own until they are 18, dispite what hedonistic views some might wish you would buy into.
A child is not even allowed to carry Advil on their person in school, and it has to be okayed by the parent and administered by the school nurse. Children rely on their parents advice regarding which classes to take, how to fill out financial aide forms, college applications, friendhips and dating, and a miriad of other life changing decisions affecting their future, which are much less improtant than that of a human life. Wrong is wrong, no matter what spin you try to put on it.
And what is to be said of the young men who are left in the dark, who may want the child? Or the parents or grandparents who would be forgiving and willing to help raise the child? We all make some bad choices in life, but one bad choice does not have to lead to another. Parents have the right to know what goes in their childs body, uncluding their school lunch. If there is a recall on beef served at school, parents have the right to be informed. The debate itself is so abserd I’d like to say it’s laughable, but it’s not. It’s a DEAD serious violation against the child in specific and the family as a whole.

Hehe I have never lived in the US so I cannot leave the country:-)

I just feel incredibly sorry for American teenagers. They live in a society which don’t give them much credit: you don’t even think they know what medication they are taking, (I’m sorry Debbe, don’t you think a teenager herself could provide a pharmacist with this information?)

By the way, Plan B doesn’t give any symptoms of miscarriage, nor has it any significant drug interactions. You have the right to think it causes an abortion, of course ( I don’t), but you are misinformed about the safety of the drug.

Is it really true that American teenagers can’t carry their medication at school and that the parents can decide what they should eat or what school classes they should take all the way up to age 18?

Don’t Americans think a teenager can fill out a college application of their own?

Are American teenagers much more immature than European? I doubt that.

I really ,really feel sorry for them.

I’m sorry. It’s me again:-). I said I was going to leave, but I think this is an interesting issue, so I couldn’t resist. It is clear we have very different views.

Don’t get me wrong: I also think caring parents are very important for any minor, regardless of age.

I also think there are things even older teenagers are not ready to handle. For example, they shouldn’t be allowed to buy alcohol or take up bank loans or buy property. These are decisons which require more life experience.

And Debbe, yes I would be concerned if a child as young as 12 needed Plan B. That would be a totally different case than a teenager. A 12 year old is biologically a child. Doesn’t mean she necessarily should be denied the pill, though.

However, a 15 year old is NOT biologically a child.
I do believe there are many things teenagers are perfectly capable of handling, and that their capacities should be respected.

After all, teenagers are capable and responsible enough to look after young children, have a job, plan their education, and older teenagers have the intellectual capacity to study at college level (adult level). Studies show at age 14 they show similar capabilities as adults to understand medical advice and make medical decisions. Their intellectual capacity is approaching adult level already at age 14, although they need greater life experience to handle some things.

To suggest that a 16 or 17 year old capable of studying college level classes should not be able to handle their own healthcare (or their own medication in school) at the advice of a medical professional is to me laughable and absurd.

I had good parents. But I still remember some times when I was 15 or 16 and I disagreed with my parents- I can still today, at age 36, stand by the decicions I made. I did sometimes know better than my parents.

I also remember how good it felt when I had the power to enrol myself into the school I wanted at age 16. It did me a lot of good psycologically. It gave me dignity and motivation to work hard with my studies. The decision I made is the same one as I would have made today, at age 36. I didn’t need my parents to make the decison or fill out the enrollment, even though it felt good to know I could ask my parents for advice if I wanted to.

Thank you for reading my comment.

Alright, Lene, let’s take a scientific perspective.

“Deborah Yurgelun-Todd and colleagues at the McLean Hospital Brain Imaging Center in Boston, Massachusetts have used functional magnetic resonance imaging to compare the activity of teenage brains to those of adults…. The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way.” Also, “Jay Giedd and his colleagues at the National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) have reached similar conclusions using a brain imaging technique that looks at brain structure rather than activity. Giedd’s results suggest that development in the frontal lobe continues throughout adolescence and well into the early twenties.”

So, whether “you” perceive children capable of making such life-impacting decisions, science/biology says they are not.

I am fully aware of the studies that show the brain does undergo some changes all the way into the early 20’s. What we are talking about is myelination of the frontal lobe, not a fundamental change in the brain.

It does not mean teenagers are uncapable of rational decision- making.
It just means their decision-making capacity still matures. Following your logic, decision-making capacity would emerge in the 20’s. Do you believe an 18 year old, considered an adult, has no decision-making capacity? Should we wait until we are 25 to decide what to study, because we are incapable of making that decision earlier?

Many studies show teenagers ARE capable of making many decisions, but nobody thinks a teenager should be the president.

I find this thought experiment a little amusing:

I am a parent. A non-abusive, non-neglectful parent.

According to this parental rights- petition, I must be presumed to act in my child’s best interest.

I want my 15-year old teenager to have free access to any therapeutic or preventive health service of her choice, without any parental involvement if she wants to, because I think this serves her best interest.

Are strict parental consent laws restricting my parental rights? After all, they make it impossible for me to have what I want for my daughter.

Or if strict parental consent laws and parental involvement always are in a child’s best interest, am I as a parent wrong and my child’s best interest is served by restricting my parental rights and force me to be involved in her healthcare against her and my will?

Just wondering :-)

Actually it’s not amusing. It’s dead serious. I am glad society is on its move to recognize the rights of the child and view the child as a person, not as the parents property.

In many countries, adolescents are viewed as the decision-makers of their own health information and healthcare. These are medical consent/ medical emancipation ages in some countries, which I think would have been changed if the young people could not handle it:

Denmark: 15
Finland: 15
Sweden:no law,when understanding advice
United Kingdom: 16, earlier when able
New Zeland: 16, possibly earlier
South Africa: 14
Most of the Caribbean: 16
Manitoba,Canada: 16
Alberta,Canada: competent minors
New South Wales, Australia: 14-16
Western Australia: 16
Rest of Australia: competent minors
Portugal and Austria: 14?when competent
Catalunia,Spain: 16
Greece: competent minors
Netherlands: 16
Ireland: 16

(Recommandation from World Medical Association; the competent minor own decision-maker with right to confidentiality)

People like Lene are scary, and i’m sorry, most American’s do not approve of abortion on demand. Whether it be chemical, or surgical. That is the real reason that you had the U.S. Supreme court, like most of our courts decisions, usurpt, and render a decision that most states had already addressed. Abortion is not a constitutional right. If your son was a daughter instead, and were to receive the plan B pill at age 12, I hope you would you not only be outraged, but would dial 911 to insure that your daughter had not been molested by an adult. Given the fact that our schools are failing in the education of our children, how in the world can you really believe that they have the best interest of the child when they encourage and support a life changing event, such as abortion. I have dealt with thousands of women over the years, who had these abortions as young girls, and as women, and their grief of having undergone an abotion. Do you LOVE you son? Why, he’s just a clump of chemicals, and organic matter. Meaningless, Right? Somehow, i’d guess you would say NO, My son is GOD’s gift to me, my wife, our family,to the world. Then why do you give such little value to the life of the unborn? There is no difference between your living son, and a baby fetus. Within weeks, the very same heart your son has, is beating in this new baby. And if you say, well, the fetus can’t sustain itself outside the uterus, therefore he’s not really a child. Then, i’d say, your son as a newborn or even up untill he was several years old, couldn’t sustain himself if you or his mother didn’t feed or care for him either. Though you no less do consider his life as sacred, as you and everyone should. Then, don’t devalue the life of the unborn. If children don’t want to rear other children, then perhaps they should be taught to keep their legs closed, and their minds on focused elsewhere. But so long as we have people like, Lene, who have no regard for life, then satan will prevail, for a while. And the live’s of our young ladies, will forever be scared. GOD forbid we expect our children to engage in appropriate behavior. Hey, since we’re at it, most kids are going to get a hold of alcohol, smokes and drugs…so lets have our school’s pass them out.

I respect your right to think that preventing a fertilized egg from being inplanted (like Plan B does) is wrong.

However, I hope you think it’s just as wrong for adult women to use Plan B…. or even worse since they usually have more resources to take care of a baby.

I hope you don’t want to target only teens and impose a larger burden and greater morality on teens than on adult women.

I also hope you are aware that an IUD coil (intrauterine coil), used as contraception by millions of women across the world, medically does exactly the same thing as Plan B. An IUD coil is fitted inside the womb, where it prevents any fertilized egg from being implanted. And worse: such a device is usually taken out after 5 years. It’s like one Plan B pill every month for 5 years!! This fact must be extremely hard for you to live with.

Well, thank you for the discussion.

Ernest, how on earth does availability of Plan B prevent a good parent from taking care of a raped 12-year old child?

Availablilty of Plan B prevents pregnancy and suffering for a rape victim, it doesn’t prevent a parent from being caring or from being involved.

In the event that the raped girl actually tries to seek help on her own and tries to keep everything secret from her parents, she probably has a good reason for it.

The parents might be out of town and unavailable during the first 24 hours when Plan b is effective. They might be uncaring, they might not believe the girl when she says she has been raped by her uncle, or they may even be the problem.

Should this poor girl who already has suffered a lot be exposed to the risk of pregnancy and even more suffering?
Hasn’t she suffered enough?

Yes, Fauske, she has suffered enough and shouldn’t be made to suffer any more.

Restricting access to Plan b is not the right way to make sure parents are involved after a rape. It doesn’t even make sure the parents ARE involved. No parental consent laws can force a child to go to the parents.

The parents will usually be involved anyway, and everyone should try and involve the parents in such a situation. But there might be a good reasons why they should not be involved.

Access to healthcare services without consent might actually increase the likelihood that the rapist will be reported to the police or to the child protective services as appropriate,as the healthcare professionals are mandatory reporters.

This discussion has become too far removed from the core reason for the original post. The issue here is whether the parents have a role in medical decisions for their children.

Parental rights are NOT absolute and no one is arguing for absolute parental rights. That is a very reasonable and long held view in our nation. There are diverging opinions and views on what is best for children. Hopefully everyone here is thankful that this relationship is not politicized. If we shift things from the long-standing parental rights doctrine to the “best interest of the child” standard than we will politicize all these things that we debate.

Thank you for everyone’s thoughtful input in this discussion.