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I am from Texas and a grandmother to 4 sweet children, now ages 9 to 5.

CPS almost took our babies from us in 2006, because of allegations made by my son in laws bitter ex wife. He has since been vindecated

While I can not speek to the FYZ ranch I can however tell you from first hand expereance, CPS has all the power and seems willing to us it at all cost, including your childrens well being.

Is taking small children from thier moms agenst their will not emotional abuse also?

If you don’t think you can be “delivered up to the courts” for being a godly parent, read your Bible. It’s going to get a lot worse than this.
Be as wise as a serpent.
Walk circumspectly.

I have to say that the issue of this religious community being taken over, based on the one girl’s situation, is very troubling. Probably very few religious people agree with polygamy or forced marriage or marriage under the age of adulthood. I certainly don’t. However, the situation could have been dealt with by seeking out the individuals involved, not by grabbing all the children and forcing them into foster care. This implies that someone’s belief in certain unpopular faiths is cause for the Constitutional rights to be abrogated. These women and families are being forcibly separated and penalized for living as they believe God prescribed, and as many other faithful people live around the world. I don’t think that someone in their faith should be able to be coerced, whether into marriage, childbearing, or other free will decisions. But this kind of action was pretty “Waco-esque” and there should be a pre-supposition of innocence until proven guilty, not guilt by religious affiliation.

I know from first hand what damage these children are going through. My two brothers and I were taken away from our mother, when I was 14. She had a nervous breakdown, and was diagnosed with Schizophrenia. What followed was a horrible time of seven different foster homes. We were abused by not only some of the parents, but their children as well. Finally, to make matters worse, we were seperated. This was the most detrimental thing anyone could have done to us. Nothing was ever done to reunite us together or with our mother. I went to one counseling session and was immediatley placed on prozac for being “depressed” At the tender age of 14. All before the age of seventeen, I was sexually active, started smoking ciggarettes, pot, and trying other drugs. No-one wanted me, and I was constantly told how “bad” my mother was, and how “bad” I was for not “turning her in sooner” (She had home schooled us very well for four years). I was a mom at the age of 19. But, when I was put into the system, I was at a college junior level of reading, and my reading comprehension was off the charts. My math was a highschool senior level. This was at age 14. I am now the mom of two wonderful kids, I am a veterinary technician. I fought my drug and alcohol addictions and won. My children are very smart and talented. My daughter is a talented musician and writer at 14, and my son is a math genius at 8 years old. If the courts only looked at the bad things that happened, and not what I did to change them, I wouldn’t have those two wonderful people in my life, and they may be going through the same thing I did as a child. And, I have to wonder, would they be enjoying their talents now, or would they be trying to be invisible just so they couldn’t be hurt? Thank you for reading

Renae, thanks so much for sharing your story. I am in awe reading it, it almost made me cry. You are an inspiration, and I have a feeling your story will stay with me for a long time. I hope it makes be a better mom, and teacher to my kids.

Here is what a friend of mine has wrote about this subject, I believe it is relevant:

The latest Texas church raid, and the lack of outrage, is disturbing.

The fact that the Generally Dumb Public is ignorant of both Biblical and Constitutional law, and apathetic as well, says everything we need to know about what has happened to this former Republic.

Another friend’s thoughts:

I continue to be astonished by the number of self-professed Christians who have no problem with what happened here. There was no trial, no adversarial hearing - only an allegation of “abuse.” Keep in mind that leftists in the EU, and their counterparts in seats of power throughout the US court and CPS system consider home and religious schooling to be “abuse.”

I too am ashamed of the lack of Christian response…No due process, assumed guilty without a trial.
I am ashamed

Parents, individually and together, have a moral, legal and biblical responsibility to defend their children from abuse, neglect or inherently harmful situations. To the degree that a parent will not act in the best interest of a child, and this refusal will cause the child mental, physical severe emotional harm, the State has the responsibility to intervene on behalf of the child. This is exactly what has occurred with the FLDS cult in Eldorado.

Society has numerous examples of cults withdrawing from public view to hide their perverse behavior, namely David Koresh at Mt. Carmel, Texas and Peoples Temple cult leader Jim Jones in Guyana. These leaders proved to be both immoral and violent. I’ll be willing to err on the side of condoning Texas authorities making the raid on YFZ because their “prophet,” Warren Jeffs, is a known and convicted child molester. That association and sympathy for Jeff’s illegal practices gives law enforcement the first step toward probable cause. Notice it has been reported that authorities found a least one girl of about 16-years with multiple children – evidence of sexual activity by this minor with an adult man, illegal in Texas when the age separation is more than four years. In Texas a 15-year-old cannot marry, even with parental consent, giving prima facie evidence of prohibited sexual contact of an adult with a minor.

Freedom of religion is a cherished Constitutional right, but allowing that full and unencumbered expression is not violated when the State steps in to halt suspected or actual practice of illegal behavior. The courts have long held that the freedoms guaranteed in the First Amendment (religion, assembly, press, speech) are not without reasonable limitations. Kentucky and other states have made handling of poisonous snakes in a religious service illegal. They did so because that behavior normally leads to willing participants being injured or killed. Does the State not have even more responsibility to protect the weakest members of society, children – certainly so.

Do not fall for the belief that defending the YFZ cult activities makes one a defender of the Constitution. We should fight for anyone to have the right to worship a fat green frog if that is their sincere belief, but we should not condone parents victimizing their children or to turn a blind eye to known illegal behavior by church operatives, for whatever reason parents allow the abuse to occur.

Once again, the has no been due process in this case and a presumption of guilt. ‘Sarah’ the girl that supposedly called the state to begin this state-napping of children, is not to be found.

Before the state starts ripping children from their parents, shouldn’t there actually be evidence that children have been abused? Have all of these children been abused by all of these adults? Must all these families be destroyed because one girl has been abused?

Oh, that’s right, let’s just assume that all of them are guilty and remove all the children from their parents.

If there is true evidence then it that is one thing.

So far there has been no evidence produced, just hearsay and phone call from a ‘Sarah’.

Yes defending this cult is defending the Constitution unless there is actual evidence. And even then, there is still due process and innocent until proven guilty.

Tomorrow may find those parents that follow a book that tells them spare the rod and spoil the child as child abusers of a cult like group. There are many people that believe a spanking is abuse. The New Atheists (Harris, Dawkins, et. al.) claim that raising children to be Christians is a form of abuse. Already in Europe laws exist that state that homeschooling children is abusive and worthy of removing children from their parents.

Beware that they do not target you next. Christ promised persecution, it may come in ways that you do not think it would.

Did you know that the man accused of abuse by ‘Sarah’ was interviewed by police and let go

But all of the children were taken from their mothers.

Another thing to consider, in the news regarding the POTUS race, we have a candiadate that has stated,

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

The candidate claims he misspoke…

I do hope that if you have children then that you don’t cling to religion, guns, or disapprove of others in so way.

Will they take your children if you don’t approve of homosexuality for you are a bigot and homophobe and subjecting your children to psychological abuse by teaching your children these values?

Will they take your children if you don’t approve of disarming law abiding gun owners, for you are a gun nut and subjecting your children to psychological abuse by teaching your children these values? And how dare you let your children play with a toy gun, or a BB gun.

Will they take your children if you worship God and Jesus and believe they are the way, for you are a bigot clinging to religion and subjecting your children to psychological abuse by teaching your children these values?

I have long made the claim that if the evening news paints somebody as a “child abuser”, that person could be executed without evidence or trial to the applause of the TV-addled populace.

This latest atrocity makes the point yet again.

The Constitutionally-ignorant tripe above proves the point:

“the State has the responsibility to intervene on behalf of the child.”

As if a State which violates its own law and “protects” children by mass kidnappping is somehow a benevolent tyrant. Who watches the watchers?

The Founding Founders wrote in the Declaration of Independence that a just government is based only on the “consent of the governed”.

Both history and the Bible repeatedly warn that those who participate with Evil will “reap what they sow”, and that a watchman who fails to sound a trumpet when danger approaches will find be held to account for the innocent blood.

The silence of so-called “Christians” who fail to oppose kidnapping speaks volumes. They show their faith by their works.

Re-reading the first sentence of the lead story on this thread reminded me of a joke: (now updated

What’s the difference between a”compound” and a “church”?

Answer:

It’s OK to kill anybody in a compound.

(Or kidnap their kids.)

This has been my concern watching the news broadcasts. All these chidlren taken from their mothers…scared to death; traumatized beyond belief.

These are chidlren who are taught to fear and hate the outside world. Now they are being questioned and examined.

On the other hand, I do feel it best to put an end to cults who believe in marrying and impregnating girls as young as 13 and not allowing members the free will to leave with any ease whatsoever.

Government power can and often is abused. But so to is patriarchal power. Women and children are always at risk from one or the other. Often damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Mark C. –
Sir, your detachment from reality and ignorance of the laws of Texas is well, colossal. The State of Texas every year removes thousands of children from their home temporarily or permanently for a multiplicity of reasons, including physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, exposure to illicit drugs, malnutrition and endangerment. This is not kidnapping. To characterize it as such is overblown and bombastic.

Fortunately, the state has the good judgment to take these thousands of children into custody before they are harmed further. Too often the State intervenes too late, not too early, and a child suffers the consequences — which sometimes means death.

In your zeal to wave the flag of liberty and freedom and demonize all acts of the State, you conspicuously overlook the fact that many parents are simply unfit, and their failure to provide a safe environment for their children has long been codified as illegal behavior. That intervention may disturb you, but fortunately, the majority of Americans want the State to look after the best interests of every child, not just prosecute the offending parent after the crime has been committed.

Perhaps you have never seen a 4-year-old child brought into an ER bleeding from the mouth from being battered by a parent; perhaps you’ve never seen a child grow up to be a drug abuser and alcoholic because of incest; perhaps you have never seen a child suck their thumb at age 12 because they have been so abused and this is their coping mechanism. Well I have.

Your vitriol is not helpful and does not serve to advance the much needed fight against the virtual plague of child abuse occurring every day in America. Your right to free speech does not include yelling “fire” in a crowded movie theater, your right to bear arms does not include taking a handgun to traffic court, nor does your right to rear your children as you deem best does not include your decision to have sex with your 13-year-old daughter.

The FLDS cult in Eldorado is sexually perverse as former cult members have clearly spoken in repeated testimony. Sir, you may foolishly cast aspersions on Texas District Judge Walther for signing the search warrant, but you will learn in weeks to come just how wrong you are, but I seriously doubt you have the moral turpitude to then post that you were completely in error.

I will not engage you further. Let the emerging facts of this case decide who was right.

Why are people so gullible? Here is a situation where you have men in a despotic position to rule over everyone in the compound. The gates to the compound are locked and children are systematically brainwashed to believe that all 325 million of their fellow Americans are “devils” who will harm them. I for one am outraged at these people. You do not see any men on television do you? No, the cowards are all hiding behind the women’s skirts. There is much more to this story and many of you commenting here so blithely about the actions of the evil state of Texas will have to eat your words. Getting the children out of harms way was a critical first step. These people are deluded by religion, sick and they have no business dominating the lives of innocent children.

You need not trouble yourself to “engage” me further, RMC, since you failed to engage in anything beyond the standard socialist party line.

How ironic it is that the phrase “people deluded by religion” is rarely used to correctly describe State-Worship. It should be.

The observation that taking over 400 children from their parents based on a single allegation is unconscionable hardly amounts to “hyperbole”; it is simply correct. The claim that somehow stating such a truth constitutes demonization of “ALL acts of the State”, is certainly “overblown”, although RMC’s assurance that such atrocities are routine in Texas leads me to believe that far more than ‘bombast’ is warranted.

“‘Necessity’ is the plea for every infringement of human liberty; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

“It’s for the children”, is the modern paraphrase, for those ignorant of William Pitt.

If “the majority of Americans want the State to look after the best interests of every child”, it merely proves that far too many Amerikans use TV propaganda as a substitute for independent thought. Oh, and it certainly helps explain — for those “colossally ignorant” of the Constitution — why the Founders rejected democracy.

Read the last line of Orwell’s _1984_; it describes both of your sycophants perfectly.

BTW, for those of you here who aren’t knee-jerk socialists, and want to see what a little genuine bombast in the defense of liberty and parental rights looks like, check out William Norman Grigg’s commentary on the latest atrocity in Texas:

The appropriately-titled,
“Your Children Are Ours” is at:

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2008/04/your-children-are-ours.html

The DNA testing will tell all.

It seems that the phone call by ‘Sarah’ that prompted the raid and taking of the children is now being investigated as a prank call.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61963

Colorado woman investigated as polygamy-hoax caller
33-year-old reportedly has history of phoning police as child in distress.

Rozita Swinton was arrested at her home Wednesday night by Colorado Springs police for an incident that occurred in February. Members of the Texas Rangers were also in Colorado Springs as part of their investigation.

RMC,
Good thing you are ready and willing to rush out to convict and execute without due process and a fair trial. That is exactly what the founding fathers had in mind /sarcasm

Also…
Do you remember a little story about the Duke Lacrosse team and a rape accusation?
How about Tawana Brawley?

Anytime an accusation is made, arrest them all! We don’t need a stupid trial! Suspend everyone’s rights! We don’t need Constitutionally guaranteed due process! We don’t need innocent until proven guilty!

And people said nothing when the Nazis started taken away their neighbors, and then there was nobody to say anything when they came for them.

These people are deluded by religion, sick and they have no business dominating the lives of innocent children.

In Canada it is illegal to comment against homosexuality.
Will such statements be made in the USA in the future as the country slides that same direction? Will people say, Those parents were so deluded by religion and so sick that the taught their children that homosexuality is wrong.

Will you be cheering the govt. on as they round up Protestants? Catholics? Jews? and take their children from them for teaching such sick deluded things such as homosexuality being wrong?

I think it is interesting that “child marriage” and polygamy is common in the muslim world but you don’t hear negative comments about this. Wonder why? Well the LDS held an immediate prayer vigil and is working through the rigged court system to get their children back. A similar group living under strict Sharia would handle the aftermath a little differently… by stomping into the police “compound”, raking their kind and just masters with bullets, then burning down the building. I think such would send exactly the sort of message that needs to be sent to the government these days.

Hi RMC!!!

“Sir, your detachment from reality and ignorance of the laws of Texas is well, colossal. The State of Texas every year removes thousands of children from their home temporarily or permanently for a multiplicity of reasons, including physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, exposure to illicit drugs, malnutrition and endangerment.”

And by doing this the state exposes the children to physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, exposure to illicit drugs, malnutrition and endangerment. BUT when it’s the STATE that does it all is good because as we know morality is only a function of the presence of a badge or small plastic credential. This is why the Nuremberg trials were such a farce! Didn’t those idiots know that the Nazi’s were helping those kids by sending them to the Hitler youth camps? They had actual credentials!

“This is not kidnapping. To characterize it as such is overblown and bombastic.”

From the Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary: Kid”nap`\, v. t. “To take (any one) by force or fear, and against one’s will, with intent to carry to another place.”

So the kids really REALLY wanted to go with the nice jack booted thugs huh RMC?

“Fortunately, the state has the good judgment to take these thousands of children into custody before they are harmed further.”

So snatching them from their parents at gunpoint isn’t harmful is it RMC? Tell you what why don’t I ask one of your neighbors to drop a false charge against your parenting. They’ll come in the middle of the night to rough you up and take your kids. Then you’ll see just how fair the system that uses such methods is. And what o’ RMC does one do when say the children are handed over to foster parents who are themselves vicious criminals or worse state employees (but I repeat myself).

“Too often the State intervenes too late, not too early, and a child suffers the consequences — which sometimes means death.”

Yes RMC we all remember how the state “intervened” in Waco. Why what would have happened to all those poor children if the government had left them alone… gosh… maybe they would be alive right now instead of burned and gassed. Do me a favor RMC go rent an old movie called “Ship of Fools”. There is a character in there, Herr Julius Löwenthal, a Jewish businessman who you might identify with.

Well done, Hugo, but unfortunately the RMCs of the world seem to be just as blind in their hubris to the world they live in as any Good German was in 1939.

Which reminds me; perhaps a Pastor Neimoller paraphrase is in order:

First they came for the Branch Davidian children, but I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Seventh Day Adventist.

Then they came for the FLDS children, but I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Mormon.

Then somebody I didn’t know accused me of child abuse, but my kids had already been taken, because I tried to teach them from the Bible…

Primarily, we must protect our Constitution first and that means the burden of proof is on the state. There should be more than an allegation to take children away. If a refusal of an interview occurs, then more drastic steps should be looked at, especially if the “investigated” will not offer any reasonable explanation of the allegation through concrete evidence (such as an independent physician’s report, that is, someone not inside the compound). Family members are aware about these type of matters long before a situation becomes this drastic. And, when people continue to look the other way, the situations grow out of hand. I don’t think any of the religions mentioned should bear the burden of the illegal acts of people claiming to be part of either church. People try to latch onto a church to try and justify illegal behavior and hide behind freedom of religion. This should be taken for what it is. Anytime there is imminent danger, a child must be protected. An allegation must be followed up to see if it’s retaliatory or credible before action is taken. If studies were released, I believe that we would find more abuse than anything else, by removing children on unsubstantiated allegations.

Wow some great comments here. I so agree with all except RMC I think he is the same one as “horrified” on another blog here under (Family Fends off False Allegations and Now Owes Thousands)I can’t help but wonder how people can be so blind to whats happening.at the same time I have to admit I thought the news was the truth and that evrything it said I believed.It wasnt till I was in my fortys I started listening to talk radio and found out differnt. What scares me is that I believe most people are like I was and are so busy trying to make a living and raise thier children and when its about time for bed they turn on news and hear it day after day till they believe all they hear. MY daughter was turned in to CPS by someone who didnt like her, my story is on the other blog (Family Fends off False Allegations and Now Owes Thousands)

I don’t know what was or was not going on in there, but the state, who supposedly had had an informant on the premises for the last four years, apparently wasn’t moved to take any action. And then suddenly they go and do what they have done on the say-so of one anonymous phone call. That is appalling. If you aren’t scared you should be.

After being a foster parent for over 3 years, I know first hand the damage that the state can do with their Gestapo Power! I have seen them pull kids that shouldn’t have been taken; those kids spend months in the system and then if they are really fortunate, are reunited, but with years of baggage to work through for both parents and children. I have also seen children that should have, and were removed, damaged even further with CPS gurus that are all-knowing with their book-learning, and move the kids all over and have to ‘try’ different (read: psychotic) mind therapies. There is something inherently wrong with a department whose funding is based on how many children are in the system. Personally, I think the CPS in Texas just needed a funding boost!

Now that ‘Sarah’ is supposedly a prank, is CPS going to hand those children back to their mothers with the offer of help if the mothers want out of the cult? Not on your life!!! And CPS NEVER apologizes! My experience is that the social workers that are in it to really help children (as opposed to a power trip) don’t last long - it is super high stress and they end up fighting the system as it is so twisted. The s.w. that stay believe that the system knows what is best for all families, and works for the program, not the families. Remember, this is CHILD Protection Services (not Family!) - and they have believed along the lines of the UN for decades!

My family has never been at odds with CPS, but it is only by the grace of God - not because we abuse our children, but because Anyone can call and say ANYTHING about my/YOUR family annonymously! They don’t have to know you, your name; you can even prove that you didn’t do it - it doesn’t matter, once they think they have reason to Begin an investigation, you have to play their game by their twisted rules. It is a complete power trip.

Yes, I do have issues after seeing what we did, but I am thankful for the experience - everyone should have such first-hand experience with CPS, and maybe enough people would stand up to help change the laws so there would be some accountability on the state’s end.

RMC, you make some valid arguments. But it can be dangerous to apply a one-size-fits-all solution to a situation that calls for a case-by-case evaluation.

And now I have a question for you. Have you ever been wrongly accused and threatened with jail and the removal of your children based on an anonymous phone call to CPS? I have. I just thank God that the DA at the time was, in his words, “unwilling to prosecute a witch hunt,” and nudged the grand jury to a “no bill.”

An interesting tidbit, is that Texas state law stated that the legal age for marriage was 14 until last year when it became 17.

Somehow, it would seem that the state and Children services have been planning to do a raid as soon as they had an opening.

http://www.captivefdlschildren.org

It was indeed. Which means the 16 yr old might have been legally married all along.

Sexual child abuse is out of control in this country. If there is such abuses going on at this ‘religious ranch’ I hope that it is stop. I hope this investigation is complete and all the details are looked at and arrests are made.
Any one who allows teenage girls to marry older men should be held accountable for their actions. This is plainly wrong, sexual assault against children is wrong.

I am not christian in any sense of the work neather do I believe in god. But if the I have read everything to do with correctly. I see and believe that what was happening at the church/compound situation was highly illegial. I also believe that the women need to have a bit of counseling in respect that the males of the church were most likely abusing them. So far through history men have been trying to suppess women and it looks from the several stories from the few women that exscaped this form of torture have freed more women.
But I do see the down side of this the children should be back with there mothers and shouldn’t go into the foster system there is just no reason to separate the children from their mothers unless there is a damn well good reason. CPS has over done this and children should not be subject to the system because abuse away from home is higher than it is usually in the home.
I don’t judge these women because of their religon. I judge the men for forcing something on them and perhaps brainwashing them.
I however find that religon is mostly full of people who like to judge prosicute and demean others. Churches love starting wars just because they think they are right and everyone else is wrong. This is why I am not a christan, muslum, jew or other religious person. If you want to believe that way go ahead just leave me out of it.

There are the two issues here that are in balance and must be considered:

1. I believe that as a moral society we are required to encourage safe home environments and protect children from abuse. The problem comes from defining abuse, and knowing when to step in and what to do. I gather most of you don’t like CPS (I don’t like it much myself) but you have to admit that many of the problems surrounding CPS stem from the fact that it has a nearly impossible job. The employees CPS and judges that hear their cases are faced with the monumental task of making snap decisions on the seriousness of abuse and future risk to children based on small amounts of subjective evidence, all while trying to not move too quickly to remove a child from his home and potentially damage him even more.

As a moral society, we do need an organization like CPS, but if anyone has any ideas how such an organization could be better run, I’d like to hear them (I’m not saying that CPS as it currently exists functions as well as it could, frankly, many of the results are aweful, but I for one don’t have an idea on how to fix it).

2. If anyone doubts that there was serious and widespread child abuse going on in that community, you’re deluding yourself. The kind of things reported to be going on in within the YFZ Ranch compound (sex and pregnancy forced on young teenage girls by much older men, the sexual molestation of very young boys, and the abandonment of young teenage boys) are universally associated with polygamous communities. It’s the natural effect of this social structure.

Were the Texas authorities right in responding to allegations of child abuse in this case? Certainly. Did they over-reach and move too quickly in removing ALL the children from their families? Probably. Should polygamy in general be illegal? That’s a whole different debate for which I can see powerful arguments on both sides.

In my opinion, it is disgusting, immoral, and in many ways criminal what was going on withing that community, that said I am on the side of some here who advocate that perhaps a more restrained and careful investigation was called for before removing all the children.

Just a note for Hugh’s thoughtful 4/18 3:39 pm comment: the name of the polygymist’s religion is FLDS not LDS.

And MarK C 4/18 5:25 pm

These polygymists are not “mormons” - that is a nick name reserved for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS). It really is not the same at all.

The FLDS took most of the LDS church name with them when they left it’s faith, and preceeded their name with “Fundamentalist”? but they did not take the nickname.

Many good points. Yes, parental rights do have limits. No one has a right to abuse their children. No child should be forced into marriage and sex against their will. How many parents would allow that? Yet some schools are distributing condoms and telling kids they don’t have to tell their parents. States pass laws that allow teens to get abortions without notifying their parents. The States cannot have it both ways. Parents cannot abuse their children and children cannot have access to adult materials or be encouraged to lie, not communicate with their parents. Because we, as a society, do not want children having children, (parenting is an adult responsibity), a child is not entitled to be sexually active and should never be encouraged to be so. FIT parents have every right to be informed about what their children are doing, where they go and who they associate with. That is called parenting. All the UN’s Children’s Rights resolution does is replace the parent’s rights with the State’s authority and treats parents as third parties to their own children. That is unAmerican.

As for parental abuse prevention, perhaps basic education on how to care for children should be a bigger priority in America. If a parent is convicted of child abuse, then, for the safety of the child, they should be removed from the parents. The parents need to undergo intensive therapy to learn what they are doing is wrong and be taught how to respect their children, even though they may have been abused as children. The cycle needs to be broken.

But by the same token, the State should not be allowed to remove children just on phone-in allegations, or claims that have nothing to do with abuse/neglect. Yet States violate our Constitutional rights every day. It is very easy for the State to turn a good parent into a “bad” parent. The States are finding all sorts of ways to invade the privacy of the American family. States now can invade your family privacy without any allegations of abuse, neglect, unfit parents. How? Simply by being a single parent family. State laws target single parents, regardless of how well your children are doing or how good a parent you are. Doesn’t matter. They do this through third party visitation laws. These laws turn on one thing, the “single” marital status of the parent. Essentially, the State allows anyone to drag a single parent into court in order to force on the parent and child a “visitation” court order for what amounts to playdates, against the will of the parent and the child. This is “nanny” state government at its height, invoking the state’s “parens patriea”. The State coinsiders all children ITS children, by way of parens patriea. We all need to get familiar with this term. This is how States are able to have ever-expanding power and control over our families. The States view single parents famlies as “broken”,as not families at all and that’s the green light to deprive fit single parents of their right to the care, custody, and control of their children. These lawsuits are emotionally and financially devastating. The State makes good, fit parents into “bad” parents through the adverserial nature of the court system. The children are seized, by way of the court order and temporarily removed from their parents and given to a noncustodial NONparent. The parents are told by the court that it is none of their (the parent’s) busines where this noncustodial nonparent takes their child, what they do or who they are with. This is emotional abuse by the State, yet the State claims to be acting in the “best interest of the child”. Many children have been molested and emotionally abused by the persons who won the visitation court order. Parents are powerless to keep these people away from their children. Yet the parents can be continuously dragged back into court for contempt until their child is 18. The parents risk fines AND jailtime if they actively disagree with the visitation court order and refuse the visits. This is certain deprivation of parental rights and interference in the parent-child relationship.

As parents, married and single, we need to first take care of our children. This includes seeking help for yourself if you have problems. We also need to get informed and tell our State legislators that there needs to be limits on State exercise of parens patriea and its limitless police powers. We need to let the State legislators know that short of conviction of actual abuse/neglect/abandonmant/parental unfitness(drug/alcohol abuse) endangerment, they cannot remove children from the protection of their FIT parents and the comfort of their homes.

Ya know, as we get all bogged down in the details of this sad case, let us focus, instead,on our point of reference, Jesus/The Word.
The world only knows how to function from one extreme to another without balance or middle ground. Christ is perfect and the only source for balance and middle ground. Therefore, when Christ is absent, there is no balance.
For example, in the 18th, 19th, and the first part of the 20th century there wasn’t ENOUGH interaction from the state OR THE CHURCH on behalf of children. And instead of finding balance, the state and, to some degree, the church has now gone to the other extreme of being overly involved in the family. But what do you expect? This is a sinful, corrupted world with imperfect people and an imperfect government. We are in the last days and I believe it will only get worse. Now, I don’t believe we should sit idly by and say,” Oh no, oh well, there goes yet another parental right down the ole tubes.” We need to be sensitive to the Spirit and discerningly listen to the Lord as He guides us to fight for our rights as Christians and live according to His Word.
And using my Point of Reference (The Word), I must say, that polygamy is wrong and not what God intended. And we are to obey the laws and they were clearly disobeying the laws of Texas by making those young girls marry under age.
The state of Texas was not perfect in their response to a case of this magnitude. But taking into account sinful imperfection apart from Christ, Texas chose the better of the two extremes.

I live in Texas.

We’re in a city with 2nd highest average per captia income in the country. I can’t say that I even know anyone that doesn’t go to church, love their children, etc.

I know of three families affected by CPS. It is completely out of control.

The first was watching a friends infant and fell down the stairs holding her, injuring the baby. Her own three children were taken away for six months.

The second had a son that fell down on a church playground and broke a bone in his lower leg — gone for 3 months, came back with nightmares every night and afraid to be around men.

The third had five children. When she became pregnant with the sixth, her husband left her for another woman. Her 17 yr old watched the others (youngest was 4 then) while she worked, She came back every lunch to check on them, went back to work, and returned at 5. A neighbor called in concerned. All 5 children were taken away. Less than one hour after birthing her sixth, CPS arrived and removed the baby from her hospital room. She has seen none of them in the past 6 years.

The person who says a moral society needs CPS is a fool–assuming those that work within CPS are actually moral themselves, and not drunk on their own power and ablility to act with impunity outside the bounds of our own constitution. They are relatively untrained high school graduates whose own ineptitude and ignorance of proper child-witness interview techniques and safeguards makes any “testimony” they collect from the children completely worthless.

I would sign my name and give specific identifiers on the above cases, but I don’t want to put my own kids in jeopardy.

People that love freedom, understand human nature, and know their history, will be bothered by this occurrence. Our current political evolution, and the disintegration of our precious freedoms occurring in our republic, is disturbing to say the least. Unfortunately, it is occurring by both political parties.

I do not believe in under age girls marrying. However, who is to say that a girl is underage but her parents who know her well and herself. The state? Why is the state’s judgement right?
I was married at 15 and have been married for 23 years- I was ready to be married and have been happy. However, I was married of my own free will. So the difference is not really age, but free will.

The same free will to practice your religion and raise your children how you see fit.

Now, I am not referring to sexual abuse which most parents, no matter what religion, do not commit.

I believe Texas over reacted by taking children away from their parents. I believe there was a more constitutional way to handle this case. I think we will see indictments when the dust settles, no only against the FDLS leaders but against the government as well. Our government is OUT OF CONTROL.
People defend the actions of our government until those actions come against them. And you never know if it will come against you- all someone has to do is accuse you, after all. You are GUILTY until proven innocent in this type of case.

I just wonder who will be next- YOU?
ME? I guess we will have to wait and see.

I am absolutly in shock beyond words that those children were taken from their mothers without any mother being found guilty of any crime. This is the worst display of civil rights violations and injustice I have ever seen and the media has been just sadistic about it. What is so frightening is that nobody seems to be protesting. And in my town the sherrif has been showing up at homeschoolers doors threateneing the parents that their children will be taken away too. I feel I am watching some sort of bad nightmare that paralles what must have happened in Germany when they started rounding up groups of people. Thank God for this group and this web site and for other people that have a similar take or I would feel I was hallucinating. The Texas Inquisition is unfolding and the media is feeding this Witch Hunt with all sorts of false information. I’ve never seen such social sadism in my time. It’s repelling.

http://www.captivefldschildren.org/

I agree that CPS needs to get out of the way. CPS knocked on my door 9 years ago and investigated my family because of a neighbor. We have a big family, we lived on many acres in the country, we are christians and to make us even more guilty in the eyes of CPS…we homeschool. One of my youg sons had wandered outside alone, I found him right away and brought him in. A neighbor saw him, but not me and claimed I was neglecting my kids. My kids were scared to death after the interviews by CPS that the police would come and get me, because the investigator told them that they would if my kids did not stay home. My kids didn’t sleep for weeks nor would they play outside. CPS would not allow any of our friends to speak on our behalf. We are fortunate that I got off with only being charged, but my kids were not taken away. Yet, I have a family member who does not take care of her children, they are abused, but CPS has never paid her a visit…no matter how many times they are called.
My heart goes out to these moms & their children. I don’t agree with how they were living, but I think the men are the ones who they should have taken…not the kids.

Also, if you sheriff is doing that YOU should stop him. He is your elected official. It is your job. Sue him for violation of rights.

I am outraged that many of you are not on the steps of the San Angelo Courthouse holding protest signs, if you were, I would see it on the news! Please get out there. I am in Central America protecting my kids from CPS in Texas so I can’t be there, please protest somebody. The national media is all over this thing, this is our break to tell people! Please this has cost me my home, business, everything but not my kids. Act while we still can.

Flora Jessop speaks on National news as an expert on the FLDS and why the children should be removed. Read her story, she is a drug user and loose woman who had a difficult time after leaving the group. Gee, were the national propagandists that desperate to find a spokeswoman? I wouldn’t want her advice on anything.

OK, I hate to rant, but how about everybody send a letter to Marliegh Meisner, CPS spokeswoman, and tell her exactly what we think of her. Wasn’t she one of the Wackos involved in Waco? 701 W. 51st Street Austin, Texas 78751
P.O. Box 149030 Austin, Texas 78714-9030
or maybe, we should call and report 416 children in imminent danger of abuse, neglect, forced drugging, by CPS! here’s your hotline 512-438-4800
Report abuse or neglect 1-800-252-5400 (from across the United States)

Lodge your compalaint here: https://www.txabusehotline.org/PublicMain.asp

If they think this may make them look better after Waco, I think they better think again.

God Bless loving Mom.

The Rangers have found Sarah. She is a thirty-three year old black woman who lives in Colorado Springs, Colorado. She is an Obama delegate. Her name is Rozita Swinton. The police found and confiscated some other items from her apartement but they refuse to disclose what those items are. She is being protected in a way that the children of FDlS are not being protected. I think she is a paid informant,but it would be crazy for Texas CPS or Texas law enforcement to have paid her. There are plenty of scummy people in Texas who could have been used for such a low job. This is very big. No ones child will be safe. I can see a future in which all the children of a town will be rounded up on the basis of uproven suspicions and hoax calls if the good people of the country do not tell the minions of the government to keep their hands off our children.

So now that this all started with a hoax, is CPS going to return those precious children to their mamas? No Way!!! EVERY ONE OF US - and everyone we can get ahold of should be calling their congressmen and senators to put pressure on Texas to return those kids to their moms. If sexual abuse has been occuring, then the perpetrators should be arrested and punished - that means the men!!! Not the children!!! Where are the checks and balances that keep a group like this (CPS) under control? Is no-one calling the social workers to accountability for their actions?

Call AND email your goverment officials and DEMAND that CPS be made to answer for their rash actions!!!

If what’s going on doesn’t scare you, it should - which of us will be next?

Want to see out of control CPS? http://www.freehannah.com

I can’t understand why the women and children were taken from their homes. Why not the men? It seems they should have taken more time to investigate the situation. I hope and pray the MANY children that are going to some strange place will be okay until the families are able to get them back. There’s a lack of foster care to begin with. How are they placing all of those children? Does anyone know of an organization that is trying to gather petitions or anything? I feel so helpless! I don’t agree with their beliefs, but I do believe in parental rights and loving your neighbor.

I am very grateful to read that there are others concerned about this process. I find it interesting to notice the words the media chooses in reporting on this situation. Since when are “prairie dresses” and “shirts buttoned up to the neck” something to be afraid of. If there is abuse, investigate like any other criminal case. Our rights are quickly sliding away and many social workers are very ignorant of those rights.

“For now, they’re all in state custody because child welfare officials believe sexual abuse has occurred or could occur imminently because of the teachings of the sect.” This is a quote from my excite news page.

How can the state take children from parents because of a belief that an abuse “could” occur. Of course I think that arranged marriages between underage girls and older men is terrible. Those cases should be pursued and prosecuted. Of course I believe polygamy is wrong. But is it because these people live so differently from the rest of Americans that they’re especially being targeted? If the “culture” decides families aren’t living like everyone else should the state be able to take children away? I see how this case could prime public opinion in a way that would affect our rights. We already have a tenuous situation when things like the U.N. Resolution on the Rights of the Child are trying to work their way into our justice system and public opinion.

How many of our inner cities (and suburbs) have men living in polygamous situations? I worked with a man from the inner city who told me how it is common for men to keep several women pregnant and the women give a portion of their welfare checks to these men. The men refer to this situation as a “stable of women”. How many children are there that don’t eveb know who their fathers are? I find it odd that we’re being very quick to move into a situation that looks different than the rest of our crazed society - and yet what happens everyday all around us is considered normal? What about serial polygamy in our society. I would like to read or hear what some real “thinkers” have to say about this subject.

‘Sarah’ seems to be a complete hoax, a phony…

The man accused of abuse by ‘Sarah’ was interviewed by police and let go

But all of the children were taken from their mothers.

So far, the state has found not one girl under age and pregnant.

Before the state starts ripping children from their parents, shouldn’t there actually be some evidence that children have been abused?
Have all of these children been abused by all of these adults?
Must all these families be destroyed because one girl has been abused?
That is, if in fact one has been abused which so far the state has no evidence in that regard.

No arrests. No revealed evidence of abuse so far. No girls underage shown to be pregnant so far. So far nothing.

And yet all of these children have been torn from their families and left to the loving, tender mercies of state that has a terrible track record of children being abused while in the state’s care.

Why is this so difficult to understand for some?

Present evidence and make arrests or return the children to their families immediately.

Why, I wonder do our government officials fear those of us who want only to be left alone to go our own way and not depend on them for everything? Anyone got any ideas?

If there were very many of us who believed in self-government and self-responsibility it would leave many of our officials out of a job! The government needs people who need government!

Dear Beth,
I am so sorry that you’re experiences with christians have been so bad. We are forgiven, not perfect.
Their faith is based on the precept that all MEN will die, will be reborn and be god of their own universe; and the only way to salvation for their women is through giving birth to children who will provide bodies for the spiritual babies they will have in their husbands universe. That is why they value their children so much, they are necessary for these spirits.
Now before the onslot of anger, check with the LDS or other mormons and most will say no way. I urge you look at an older version of the Pearl of great price and the mormon bible, I have even heard you can find it in certain websites that the mormons havent done away with. They are trying to distance themselves from this and some dont even know it. It( the religion) was built on this and this is what Jeffs still follows and so do his women. They will just have more children that is why only 6 women have stepped forward to reclaim their children.
AS to the person who said the 16 yr. old could be legally married, yea if she is the first and only wife, more would be illegal in all our country including Texas.
There is no way to legislate to these people, they will either leave the faith or they wont and the children will still suffer.
I urge all of you to not believe everything you see on the boob tube and keep in mind we all fall short of the glory of God. I hope the kids and the mothers can find true salvation and this from the grace of God not through the works of their hands (or bodies) but through what Christ has already done. Saying this, I call on my sisters and brothers in Christ out there close by, walk across the room and embrace these people with love, for they all have sinned, the men too.
The state will do what it will but the ones who say it wont stop there are right, we all will fall one day to the powers that be, but some will live on with Christ. Fight the good fight but dont just turn away from those that are hurting, we have and that is why we take such a verbal berating from everyone in the secular world. Fight for these kids and families, they are all Gods children and so are worthy of your efforts.
Love above all else, Love God, Love your neighbors as yourself. They are our neighbors whether we like the way they live or not. Will you give a hug to them and tell them you love them,
Christ did for you….

When we look at polygamy we sometimes forget what its point is. Men who want more children/sexual access/power than are possible with only one wife are the ones who find polygamy attractive. These are the same men who want those same things enough to be abusive to women and children. They are likely to see BOTH as “property” rather than human beings with privileges and feelings. I have seen what can result when this happens.
I believe very strongly in parental rights. However, my greatest concern about the Texas raid is what happens now. Will these women, who have in all likelihood lived long years under deep oppression, be given a chance to learn about freedom?
They will need all kinds of help to survive from here–and for their sakes’ and their children’s, I hope from the bottom of my heart they receive it.
If physical and sexual abuse, combined with economic oppression by compound leaders, are not enough reason for the government to step in, I don’t know what would be.

I’d just like to point out that there are laws against polygamy in the US. If it is going on, it is illegal. They aren’t just practicing freedom of religion, they are breaking the law doing it. Breaking the law should result in government action and was unwise on their part.

Most families outside the mainstream do not break the law while doing what they do.

Of course, there should be due process, and we’ve not seen that yet.

It is clear to me that whatever oppresion the those people endured under their religion has clearly been trumped by the oppression they are enduring courtesy of CPS. Such hardship can only serve to cement the bonds between those people. The has state played into the hands of the very religion they were hoping to destroy. A Christian or at least a more humane response would have been to set up an outreach program for the oppressed men and womenof the so called cult. That is more charitable than taking children away from people who deviate from the norm. This may be about underage sex but I ask myself why hasn’t planned parenthood been shut down for aiding and abetting the sexual abuse of minors. Homeschooling is mentioned over and over in the news casts. There is more politics involved in this raid than apologists for the government let on. This taken with the California ruling on homeschooling suggests that home schoolers need to circle the wagons and prepare for a massive attack by the trotskiests elements in CPS and the media.

Is RMC a social worker? Sounds like it.
Years back a CPS worker forced me into “voluntarily” placing my daughter in a temporary home. The reason? I had been seriously ill and my house was messy! Before CPS could take action I “kidnapped” my own daughter and put her on a plane to her older sister where I knew she would be safe. CPD tried to find something to charge me with but couldn’t. So they put me on a list of abusers. Now I cannot adopt even though my health has improved and my house is fine. My daughter was eight and safe with her sister for 3 months but she still has trouble sleeping and separation anxiety though she is almost grown now. The separation is harder on homeschooled children who have a strong family bond. CPS is a division of Health and Welfare and my daughter calls it “Belch and Hellfare.”
The FLDS children are being abused by CPS. Not only that, CPS is asking for LDS families to apply as foster parents for these kids, even though the LDS church has the highest rate of incest in the nation and an exceptionally high rate of teen and women’s suicide. Does that make sense?

I would like to comment that many times the foster home children are taken to is not better than the one they came from. My brother and I were placed in foster care in Florida for a week when my mother was taken to jail for contempt of court. I had lived a very sheltered christian life. There all the teeanagers smoked, and they watched cartoons that said bad words. We were not supervised at all. I remember them even trying to make a person float doing a chant game. It is true the children will not be abused physically in these new homes, but there is no way to guarantee morally what type of examples they will receive.

We dont know all the facts. We get out info from the news media for whom show us what they want us to see but not all of what is happening. CPS has a nasty habbit of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and taking the wrong child out of the wrong home. Some one needs to find out who and what is happening in its completness. We are wrong to ASSUME wrong doing until we can show what is happening. Who are we to be so oppinionated when we dont have the total facts. CPS is doing the best they can. Unfortunatly they function on what they think a childs life should be like and not what we think a childs life should be like. Everyone seems to have their own personall opinion and CPS has the power to force their personal opinion on others. Well I certainly dont see any one else with the legal right to prevent child abuse. God help this country. Parents are loosing their rights all over the place. So if we dont like the way it is run lets do something about!!!!!!!!!!!!! Legally of course.

Wow mercyme. I liked your post about what you did with your daughter. I often think I would try to do the same thing if I was in your situation. But you totally shocked me with your statement about the LDS church having the “highest rate of incest in the nation and an exceptionally high rate of teen and women’s suicide”. I would like to know the citation for those statistics please. I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS not FLDS) for 19 years. I have never known of anyone nor have I heard anyone in the larger extended church community mention any women committing suicide. Not to say that somewhere in the world LDS women do not take their own life, but is it any more frequent than the community/nation at large? There was a teen boy that committed suicide here in late 2001, but I bet overall the statistics for teen suicide in the LDS community is not so much different from the nation at large. Also, I have never ever heard of anyone accusing, being investigated for, or being removed by CPS because of incest. I once heard a anti-christian (now) former friend of mine say that “Christians had the highest rate of incest of any known group.” She couldn’t back it up with any proof either. But she had been taught that at college in a psychology class. Basically it was her way of trying to show me that Christians are evil. (No different than the current arguement I hear being taught to people about Christians having killed more people than any other group.) It is a statement simply said to vilify Christians and to influence those who are gulllible enough to believe whatever they hear without doing their own legwork and research and thinking. I urge you to be careful when you throw around accusations without any proven statistics. Does CPS keep and release to the public details about incest cases included what religious belief the family was? I have never seen anything like that. But if you have, please do tell me where I can view that information. I am not saying that within the worldwide membership of the LDS church that bad things don’t happen to someone somewhere. People are people and are therefore subject to all temptations that have been part of the human race since the dawn of time. I just urge you to be more careful when you fling statements like that one out there.
My guess is that CPS is asking the LDS community to help care for these children because there are beliefs that are from the same historical sources. I don’t really know what changes have been made by the FLDS church and they have been separated from the LDS church for over a century. I certainly don’t identify with any of the beliefs that I have heard mentioned in the media. No LDS would. But I think CPS is trying to minimize the culture shock the children would feel if they were placed with non-religious people or people from a different Christian tradition. I hope that makes sense.
One other point I want to make separate from the above topic is that I feel really badly for the women and children in this situation. Imagine how you would feel if a person in your congregation was accussed of abusing their child. Then the state came in and assumed that because that person is in your church that you all must behave the same way and they take all your children away for their own protection. That is about what it looks like has happened here in Texas. Everyone is guilty by association. We should all be very concerned about this happening at all. I am surely against physical, emotional or sexual abuse (and any other kind that there is). And I am for people obeying the laws of the land. But I am also for the Constitution of this nation that provides for the freedom of religion and the free exercise thereof. It does not matter whether I believe the same as someone else or not. It doesn’t matter if other’s practices turn my stomach. They are guaranteed by the Constitution the freedom to practice what they believe (as long as it doesn’t break the law). When those freedoms start being trampled we should all be very afraid. Where does it stop? If one anonymous person can make a call and level any accusation at someone or a group of people that they hate for some reason, and the Child Protection Gestapo (oops, I mean CPS) can swoop in and destroy children, marriages, and families for the “protection” of said children, it won’t be long until this form of domestic terrorism is leveled at any unpopular group or members of said group. Let us all pray for God’s will to be done in this matter. Ultimately, the children and their families are in HIS hands.

I tried protesting by myself people don’t want to join me. Also here in DesMoines Iowa there was a articile on DHS abusing their own children and that they get to keep their job and their children,why is that/ also look on http://www.fightcps.com and http://www.dcfctiscorrupt.com.

Has anyone stopped to think, CYS has TOTALLY destroyed any chance of charging any of the men on this ranch with any child sex crimes? The phone call turns out to be bogus…therefore the DNA tests are fruit of a poisonous tree. This was an illegal search and seizure. IF there was abuse going on, their refusal to follow the constitution destroys ANY chance of incarceration here.
The DNA is inadmissable in court. And now these kids are alone…frightened…and being played as poker chips, because NOBODY wants to back down and say, we screwed up, and royally at that!

It is disgusting that these children were ripped from their homes without a fair investigation and all evidence (if any) reviewed carefully. We see this as a “buttering up” of the people of America- taking the Morman children from their homes because some psychiatrist says that “religious indoctrination” is harmful to a child. What do you think will come next? Christians better keep their little ones under their wings and keep a close watch at WHO is watching! Just like every other obsenity in this country- we are undergoing a “desensitization” process. Once everyone gets over the fact that these morman children were taken from their families, and no one makes a peep, believe me- Christians will be next. Prayer, prayer, and more prayer is what it is going to take, and standing up for God. When people were buying and selling in the temple, do you think Jesus just ignored it and looked away? NO! He turned over the tables and called them on it! Lets remember, Jesus is as firce as a lion and as gentle as a lamb. Somehow, somewhere along the lines of Christianity in this country (and others, I’m sure), we view Jesus as only the lamb side, the “gentle” side. He is also fierce! He is a king! We need to not let things slip by!! We need to take up our cross and fight for God and his values- I know I’m not letting my family go down with this agenda to destroy the family without a fight!

I can not believe that with just an allegation, the state can remove all those children! Whatever happened to “just cause,” or “innocent until proven guilty” ? This is another activist approach to slowly eroding the rights of parents. Did the state have search warrants simply based on a tip that they didn’t bother to check out first? Is that allowed and legal? Doesn’t this go against basic constitutional rights?

Birdy–you’re right: polygamy isn’t all that different from what goes on in the larger society but w/o benefit of “marriage” or any other commitment. Too bad we quit prosecuting for adultery! Where do we stop? If these adults claimed they were never married, they could live in exactly the same situation and nobody could prosecute. Except for the minors and adults, of course. We should hold the line on that one (and on polygamy, for that matter–we have to hold it somewhere).

RMC–someone said you sound like a social worker. More like an ER doctor, I’d say.

My experience: Our 4-month old baby had a bruise on her back. They hospitalized her and had an ophthalmologist look in her eyes–he found a hemorrhage in her left eye. They told us it was caused by shaking–”That baby WAS shaken!” the pediatrician told me most emphatically. We begged to see the ophtho’s report but were denied, and he had left on vacation. While we were still stunned, they took our baby away. Our lawyer was able to get the ophtho’s report, and it very clearly specified that her eye hemorrhage was caused by her anemia (she was later found to have a genetic blood disorder), and specifically NOT by shaking! So the pediatrician LIED, and the social worker deemed it unnecessary to check the ophtho’s report, and the judge also thought the optho’s report was unimportant. After we presented the report in court, we got our baby back. However, to the best of my knowledge, neither the social worker nor the pediatrician sufferred anything at all from their irresponsible investigation and lies. We, however, still suffer from the aftermate, years later. But we’re the parents, so we don’t matter. We’re a loving family, so we’re expendable. God bless the ophthalmologist, who deemed the truth more important than somebody’s subjective opinion.

Wow, I never thought I would see so many “Christians” so willing to throw men “under the bus” for the sake of covering up one’s responsibilities in a questionable act.

There are several issues here to take into account. First of all, it takes two. Secondly, women are not helpless, just less willing to own up to their role in what could be construed as a questionable or illegal act. Thirdly, women have a significant role in the way things play out in issues involving CPS as evidenced by the fact that CPS is generally run by…you guessed it!

Why can’t we just say what it is, that families were broken up due to suspicions of illegal acts? Why do we have to make situations like this into a political game of battle of the sexes?

I have my own issues with CPS. This political game of men vs. women has cost me a great deal, not to mention the havoc it has wrought in the lives of my children. Whom do I hold responsible for that? The women in charge of supervising their situation or the men (or women) afraid to stand up for what is right?

I am outraged at the situation here. My goodness, these people are ill. They are like the Stepford Wives. They are robotic. People who are feeling sorry for these women– DON’T BE! They aren’t cooperating with the state. They have to do DNA tests just to see which child belongs to which mother and father for God sakes! Why can’t they can’t give their last names? Why aren’t these parents stepping up and saying “Hey that’s my child!” Why aren’t they? It’s simple, they know they have done wrong. They know that they have done illegal acts, letting their children be subjected to such abuse. I say thank God that the state stepped in and are investigating and looking out for the welfare of these children. For you people that are defending people, you should have your heads checked as well. This is wrong!

There are children who are suffering at the hands of abuser. They should be protected within the guidelines of our Constitution. No judge wants to overlook an allegation and find out that they did not order the removal of an abused child - only to see the child dead on television the next day. That would be career suicide. So, it’s easier to just give child protective agencies what they want, in the absence of information to refute allegations.

With that said, parents have to ensure judges and magistrates have evidence in their favor to prevent the removal of their children.

I doubt valid investigations are conducted once the child is removed. I think case plans are developed in most places. The case workers have too many children and too many allegations.

The squeaky wheel gets oiled. Yes, it can get taken off and set aside as well. Which family would a case worker pursue most? One with a competent attorney or one with no attorney who keeps calling trying to explain.

Please do not think I believe only attorneys can resolve these problems. There are times I handle my own issues and then there are times that I know the only way I will be heard by the court is through an attorney.

Find out what type of jurisdiction you’re in before a neighbor calls in a complaint. Go and sit in on some cases in your juvenile court’s district. Find out what’s happening your area (quietly, so you don’t draw attention to yourself). Then, you’ll know how the system works where you live.

I think the agencies serve a good purpose but families need to ensure they are doing their job in each community. If they are not, the place to start is by rallying together with parents in your county to make changes.

btw, Dave, DNA tests are not foolproof. Though rare, there is a condition that foils DNA tests and can give false negatives. There’s a special on I think the Discovery channel about this since last year. So much for shows like Maury proving that someone is “not” the father…

Dear Ashley,

Two of the toddlers in CPS care have already gone missing. Several of the babies are now dehydrated. Women are supposed to nurse until age two. Babies who are nursed until age two are smarter than babies who are not nursed until age two. I do not understand people who want to rip nursing babies from their mothers. No amount of psychiatric medication , hard core drugs or booze will make me agree with such cruelty. So spare me your party line. By the way Ashley ,if those toddlers turn up dead or they are never found again neither the state nor the CPS workers who supposedly really care so much about those kids will suffer consquences. Parents on the other hand will go to jail if they kill their kids. Because cps suffers no consequences when one of their wards is abused in foster care and child abuse is rappant in foster care I think CPS should almost never get children. I think the state did not proove that all the children were in danger and it is a travesty that all of the kids were given to CPS. The state should have only been given the teenage mothers and only if the state had proven the teenage mothers were impregnated by older men. If any of those children are abused killed or raped in foster care people like you are responsible, because CPS could never get away with its crimes against children if it did not have so many enablers.

With Love,
tb

http://www.now.org/cgi-bin/store/BK-GBR.html?id=mNJJoekL

adult book : God’s Brothel by Andrea Moore-Emmett

By Andrea Moore-Emmett, Utah NOW President. Stories of 18 women who escaped contemporary Mormon and Christian fundamentalist polygamy.

I’m sure Ms. Moore-Emmett has the purest of
intentions. (sarcasm)

Nora

If the “acid test” of polygamy was applied to all, including the former first lady, now running for president, Chelsea should have been removed from the White House and placed in foster care… Think about how our nominee for Democratic convention helped her husband hide his infidelity and then compare that situtation to the TX one.

tb, thanks for posting that. Is this the rozita swinton originally from nashville tennessee? An obama delegate in pct #269. I think I read this too at the Colo. Springs Gazette. Not sure where did you read this?

I have not been able to see my daughter since January 12, 2008. Due to new medical diagnoses that I have suffered from since seventeen years of age-without guidance from any agency my daughter was put into a guardianship per CPS and I either chose these people to be her guardians or she would have been put into the Foster Care System-I wasn’t given much of a choice. After the guardianship was determined I was able to see her at least once per week. Now I don’t get to see her at all. I am getting the medical help that I need-but am unaware of who holds guardians accountable for what they do or not do. I don’t understand this at all! I have not been able to communicate with the female guardian as she makes herself unavailable and inconsistant communication with her husband. They tell me it’s my daughter’s decision not to see me-I believe otherwise. I also cannot afford a lawyer. Can you give me some advice of what I can do to correct this problem? The sad part about this whole thing is that they are people I know and they are pastors of what used to be my church. I’ve been lied to right from the start-I don’t know what to do.